hello everyone
Donny wrote:
I tend to agree w/ Glove
that the S-O split is primarily social.
Donny, this is a good starting place for agreement.
Donny wrote:
I think this ability to
distinguish between person and non-person/mere thing is what gave rise to
society out of BioPoVs. I've suggested this schema to help straighten
things out:
Bio = Object-consciousness (can distinguish between I and This, me and
not-me) NOTE: not all organisms possess O-con.
Soc = Subject-Object Consctiosness (distinguish between a person and a
non-person or an impared/stigmatized person like an ex-con or mental
patient, or Finton [just kidding])
Int = S-O logic (this is a set of rules for how to analytically cut-up
reality w/ your scalple and divide it into hierarchys [see ZMM])
And, I'll also state for the record that (being the most
multicultural person I know) I'm not yet totally comfertable resigning
InTPoVs to the "Western European tradition as innherated from Greece."
my comments:
Donny, you started out agreeing with me but ended up back at the same static
place. how can seeing logic as the intellect lead to freedom for the
individual? logic is just another static social pattern of value. logic is a
socially instilled value learned by interaction with others and with the
environment. what is logical is also what is culturally acceptable.
something that is not culturally acceptable is illogical.
look at Pirsigs analogy about the saint and his/her relationship with
Dynamic Quality. it was perhaps not an apt analogy because we can have no
direct relationship with Dynamic Quality. statically latched social patterns
of value can only approach Dynamic freedom thru the intellect. the moral
force of value in the intellect is in conflict with the established social
morals and the social establishment senses this and it makes for uneasiness.
Dynamic Quality is only experienced thru the four static quality level
patterns of value. it seems to me that what Pirsig was really talking about
was the intellect at work in the saint and not Dynamic Quality experienced
directly. therefore:
the social level = construction of subject/object logic
the intellect level = transcendental Dynamic destruction of logic
best wishes to all,
glove
http://members.tripod.com/~Glove_r/Jaynes.html
Force of Values in the Metaphysics of Quality
http://members.tripod.com/~Glove_r/Bohr.html
Quality is a "Good" Dog; Pirsig and Castaneda Compared
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