Hi David, Horse, Roger and LS:
DAVID wrote:
> Thanks for taking the time to look at the paper titled "Implications of
> a Fundamental Consciousness". I was very thrilled to discover it and
> was desperate to find out if other Pirsigers could verify the
> similarities between it and the MOQ.
>
> For anyone who hasn't seen the paper, you can get it at
> http://www.cop.com/cmtu3htm.html.
> Platt wrote: "I kept asking myself, where in this author's theory are
> the values? Where are the morals?"
>
> I asked myself the same questions. Macdonald's "patterns of
> information" certainly has a cold and clinical feel compared to Pirsigs
> "pattern of vaules". I suspect any other style of description would
> have landed the student in some hot water with his thesis advisor. I'm
> guessing he uses words like information instead of values or morals
> because it seems more scientific and scholarly to the folks who will
> judge his work and grant his doctorate or not. I'm saying the difference
> could be one of mere style. Pirsig works in a literary form, whereas
> Macdonald has to accomodate certain academic standards if he wants his
> degree.
No doubt you're right about the necessity to write a thesis in a certain
style to accomodate the academic immune system. Sad but true. Horse
and Roger have touched on the same problem in other posts. It seems
that in trying to persuade academia to pay attention to Pirsig, morals
must not be mentioned. Yet IMHO morals are central to the Pirsig
worldview. Unless that's made clear, the MoQ just gets swallowed up in all
the old SOM arguments.
> Also, I thinks it is not too much of a leap to see the similarity
> between quality, value and morality on the one hand and information on
> the other. It seems to me that the words Pirsig use imply information.
> On what basis can quality and value be determined? Clearly, some kind of
> information is required to make such a determination.
Yes, I see the connection. But to me it's somewhat of a stretch because I
consider information in its pure form to be neutral until some value
determines a need for it. In other words, if you view information as "data"
such as found in a phone book or stock tables, it just sort of sits there like
quantum potential until someone has some reason to "observe" it. So
information can exist in a kind of valueless limbo.
> Finally, these views can be reconciled in the Buddhist idea that
> "ingorance is the cause of all suffering". (Please say it with an Indian
> accent.) Put another way, immorality is caused by a lack of
> information. In fact, the original meaning of the word "sin" was "to
> miss the mark?" And the original meaning of "repent" was something like
> "re-examine your thoughts and beliefs". Do you see the connection
> between information and values in this explaination?
Yes, but again a bit of stretch don't you think? On the other hand, it's
probably just me. I get frustrated when people of some academic
standing come so close to Pirsig's view but can't seem to bring
themselves to make the final leap to Quality and just come right out and
say, "moral judgments are the fundamental groundstuff of the world."
(Lila, Chap. 12)
Platt
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