Dear Kevin - you wrote:
>Mysticism is neither societal nor intellectual, but still remains
static -
>thus another level must be added. This doesn't obscure Dynamic Quality,
it
>keeps it more pure by realizing that what we do to get to Dynamic
Quality
>is not Dynamic Quality itself.
It seems that many of us have toyed with adding static levels above or
below Pirsig's, and that this has been discussed in MOQ_discuss.
I have temporarily set aside the idea for the reason that I feel there
is more valuable work for myself to be done in the further clarification
of the MOQ - before expansion.
However, I too have the feeling that a mystic level ought to be added
above. The primary reason for this is that the central idea of the MOQ
is that Quality is EVOLVING. Obviously a new static pattern of values -
at some point in time (past, present, future) - will/has
form/stabilize/-d in the wake of Dynamic Quality.
I agree that this is mysticism. But very hesitantly.
1) I am not a mystic and know about "that" state of being solely
through reading - PERHAPS (later inexpressible) inklings have
appeared in meditation and psychedelic 'trips', but how does my
later social/intellectual "self" know whether that was so?
I think this CAN be answered - experience of union, understanding
"tat tvam asi", absolutely simple and clear vision of the "way
things are", etc...BUT:
2) A lot of people will need a lot of convincing that I, you(?),
Phaedrus, Native American Church, etc... really have the same
(static) experiences through chemicals that Shankara, Lao Tzu,
St.John of the Cross, Eckhart, etc... reached without.
Pirsig seems to feel that peyote - like the practices of Rinzai
Zen schools (school of sudden enlightenment) - DOES take you
there, serves as a DE-hallucinogen - Dynamically blows you beyond
ANY static pattern.
---How would you describe the static values of "Mysticism"?
---What are its means, what are its ends?
---Can an inorganic pattern of value (peyote) lead to the as yet
most Dynamic (and VERY VERY rare) pattern of values evolved,
namely "mysticism"?
rich
ps - I don't know if you've read Ken Wilber's "Up From Eden - a
transpersonal view of human evolution". If you have, his idea of a
general level of consciousness (pov) and a higher, leading edge, "tip"
of consciousness coexisting through history would greatly support the
adding of a new mystic level. Mystic patterns of value would appear in
some very few individuals.
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