Hi Roger and company;
you wrote:
>You define the first as "HUMAN EXPERIENCE and COSMIC EVOLUTION"
>
>But Direct Experience of course is not "human" experience. The "H"
word is
>added statically afterward, as is the time element you mention. But
I am
>preaching to the choir, as you make similar points later in your
post. I too
>agree that Mr P. stays away from CONSCIOUSNESS , but I am convinced
he would
>agree it is another "collection of patterns".....which again are
patterns
>derived from experience.
Thanks, you're right - 'amoebaness', 'rabbitness', 'Humanness' come
after the experience, they are deduced from the Quality Event.
Consciousness is such a tricky word.
How's this as a rule of thumb:
"The more Dynamic the experience, the more Conscious the experiencer"
What I mean is this:
Inorganic Rich is normally quite unconscious of Gravity, because it's
always there - it's Static. Until he falls off a cliff - Dynamic.
Biological Roger is normally quite unconscious of the diaphragmatic
movements which allow him to breathe - they're always there - Static.
Until he is under water too long - Dynamic.
Social Rich is normally quite unconscious of his idiosyncratic habits
of relating to his girlfriend - he always does it - Static. Until she
tells him he's sleeping on the couch if his eyes don't stop wandering
at parties - Dynamic.
Intellectual Roger was quite unconscious of his S/O metaphysical
orientation because he had always thought that way - Static. Until he
read Lila - Dynamic.
So, as we move up the four levels, we are more conscious of them.
Barely ever of Ino, only of Bio when something goes wrong (or really
right - good food, sex..) Often of Soc, almost always of Int - 'you'
are aware of your thoughts.
For myself, this is good, so far. But here's the 'kicker':
"There isn't any 'man' independent of the patterns. Man is the
patterns. This fictitious 'man' has many synonyms: 'mankind',
'people', 'the public'...'I', 'he', 'they'....Like 'substance' they
can be used as long as it is remembered that they're terms for
collections of patterns and not some independent primary reality of
their own" - (Purple? Teal?) Bantam paperback pg.178 (with yellow
highlights, green for more important, blue for the most!)
Okay, but isn't this contradictory:
"...To the extent that one's behavior is controlled by static
patterns of quality it is without choice. But to the extent that one
follows Dynamic Quality, which is undefinable, one's behavior is
free." - pg.180
AND:
"...societies and thoughts and principles themselves are no more than
sets of static patterns. These patterns can't by themselves perceive
or adjust to Dynamic Quality. Only a living being can do that."
Who the hell is the "one" who "follows", "perceive(s) or adjust(s)",
who is a "living being"???
I have thought this to be the CONSCIOUS me, the ONE who is ALWAYS
there, who "watches" and controls 'his' four levels of static
patterns of morality and "decides" when to make Dynamic increments,
or respond to Dynamic situations...
What do you think? Can you honestly go to work tomorrow with the
guiding principle that really the 'thing' named "Roger" has no
independent existence of 'it's' own, whatsoever?
Is our conversation but two intellectual patterns meeting?
How is it "decided" to switch from one code of morality to another,
regarding the movements of this body, direction of these thoughts?
Buddhism has a central doctrine of 'anatman' - 'no-soul'.
Christianity has a central doctrine of 'soul' - 'no-body'.
I have struggled with this, and perhaps it is only my Christian
heritage (static pov's) which mandates which to 'think'.
But both seem ridiculous is one sense.
Zen: "show me the face you had before you were born"
Would you agree that these lines of thought must lead to the
conclusion that... all these static patterns which I thought were
"ME", a "MAN", are nothing but MAYA - illusion... because REAL-ly,
only Dynamic Quality exists - the pre-intellectual cutting edge...
This leads us back to the question of capitalizing static Quality,
doesn't it?
Enough of that. My eyes hurt.
Next:
>As for your following:
>
>>>>>>Dynamic force and static latching.
>We really ought to jointly create a chronology of significant
Dynamic
>improvements and static latching. Is this somehow possible on this
>site...a continually expanding and improving list of (Quality)
events
>and spacetime locations, to which anyone can add according to his or
>her knowledge?>>>>>>>>
>
>Why do you want to do this? What would we do with it?
Look at it and figure out if it's correct, if it's beautiful. If not,
make Quality improvements. What I have in mind is a "proof", so to
speak, of the MOQ, by showing, to the best of our present ability,
when and where the four levels originated and obviously operated.
This may serve as an introduction to people unversed in the MOQ, by
showing how well it explains evolution as the advancement of morality.
?15 billion yago - Inorganic created Dynamically (big bang)
?4.6 billion yago - Solar system
?4.0 billion yago - Earth
?300-400 million yago - Biological created Dynamically (carbon)
??? - social - hmmm - amoebas, fish, trees, or does it begin with
humans only? Pirsig only talks about social values such as cities,
laws, gov'ts, control of biology, etc... but isn't a pack of wolves
hunting a social pattern of value? not to mention chimps.
?300 - 400 yago - intellectual - the Renaissance, Enlightenment,
birth of science...
Perhaps it's useless. I guess I just thought it was 'cool'.
Typing in a universe which is not only Expanding... but according to
the latest Physical discoveries (not fully accepted)... is
ACCELERATING - becoming MORE DYNAMIC... this really blows me away.
Anyone else?
According to relativity, as something approaches the speed of light,
it's mass increases, and intrinsic time decreases. That's why we
can't ever go faster than 300 something thousand kilometres per
second, because we'd have infinite mass and time would stop. Not
possible.
But Quantum mechanics is at odds with relativity, so perhaps there's
hope.
rich
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