Rich, David T, Glove, Roger, Struan and tribe: This is in response to
Rich's call for concise definitions of mysticism. I'm using a big chuck
of David T's post because his definition seems to be the best so far. My
main point remains the same; Pirsig's MOQ is an excellent rational
explaination of mysticism.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David L Thomas [SMTP:dlt44@ipa.net]
>
> My little CD encyclopedia lists about 200 entries for "mysticism" and
> "mystic"ranging from Saint Gregory to Jack Kerouac including this
> definition which I've pared down to the essence:
>
> "Mysticism in general refers to a direct and immediate experience of
> the
> sacred, or the knowledge derived from such an experience...
[David Buchanan] I think it's clear that this all relates
directly to the MOQ, and even though this definition is not designed as
a complement to Pirsig's view of reality, I'll try to put it in MOQ
terms. At least we're all on common ground with respect to the
vocabulary of ZMM and Lila. "Direct and immediate experience" is
perception of reality that is UN-MEDIATED by the static patterns that
are usually involved in perception. Normally, our experience of reality
is mediated through the levels. Experience is habitually categorized and
filtered in the mind and its intellectual patterns. The intellectual
patterns actually exist within the social patterns like fish live in
water. Social patterns are the medium in which intellectual patterns
exist, so experience is also mediated through this level as well.
Naturally, experience is also MEDIATED through the biological patterns
of value, as in sight and touch, and all the sensory organs. Our
experience as living beings is mediated through all the static levels
that are within us. But direct im-MEDIATE experience is altogether
something different. Thats the mystical experience. SQ abandoned for DQ.
> Mysticism is usually accompanied by meditation, prayer, and ascetic
> discipline...three attributes are found almost universally.
>
[David Buchanan] Many so-called meditative practices developed
in the East can be described in Western psychological terms. Their
approch is very different from the scientific method, but they've
discovered the same things and then some. Robert Thurman says Tibetan
Buddhism is as advanced as the West's space program. The two have just
explored reality in two different directtions, the West has looked
outward and the East has looked inward. They use various techniques to
examine their own internal states, to sift through the layers of
consciousness and free the mind of static patterns.
> First, the experience is immediate and overwhelming, divorced from the
> common experience of reality.
[David Buchanan] Yea, and after the overwhelming experience,
what once seemed obvious and ordinary now appears to be an illusion. You
know, the shadows on the cave wall seems pretty silly in the light of
the noon day sun.
>
> Second, the experience or the knowledge imparted by it is felt to be
> self authenticating, without need of further evidence or
> justification.
[David Buchanan] Yea, the experience has a lot of authority.
Think of the certainty one feels with direct visual contact. An eye
witness,.. only believe it when I SEE it,.. seeing is believing, etc.
The mystical experience has more authority than any sensory experience.
I think its worth pointing out that the phrase "radical empiricism"
refers to this same experiential authority. Pirsig's empiricism is
radical because it says that direct and immediate experience is primary,
not sensory data. His empiricism is radical enough to claim that sense
organs were created by experience. Eyes and ears don't have experience.
Experience has them.
> Finally, it is held to be ineffable, its essence incapable of being
> expressed
> or understood outside the experience itself"
[David Buchanan] I'm glad Pirsig is enough of a degenerate to
challenge the the view that the Mystical reality is entirely ineffable.
The immediate perception of reality is beyond static intellectual
patterns. All we can do is use intellectual patterns to refer to the
ineffable. Words and ideas can point toward it, even if they can never
adequately capture the experience. The arts are often a better medium
than normal language. Its part of the reason Pirsig uses the novel as a
medium for his metaphysics, rather that straight forward text book form.
> So based on the above I will re-ask my questions.
>
> If 1) "Mysticism in general refers to a direct and immediate
> experience. .its
> essence incapable of being expressed or understood outside the
> experience itself"
>
> 2) In practice it has at least three areas of belief.
>
> 3) faith is defined as "unquestioning belief that does not require
> proof or
> evidence" and one attribute of mysticism is "the experience or the
> knowledge
> imparted by it is felt to be self authenticating, without need of
> further
> evidence or justification"
>
> Does mysticism, a mystic, mystical tradition, or the practice of
> mysticism
> require any "unquestioning belief" or faith?
>
> Then assuming,as Pirsig claims, that mysticism is somehow a part of
> the MoQ:
>
> What role does FAITH play in the MoQ?
>
[David Buchanan] I don't think its fair to say the mystic
founds his view on faith. It is founded on an experience. The experience
seems much more real than any thoughts or ideas about it. The experience
itself is unmistakable, authoritative, and requires NO FURTHER evidence.
STRUAN: Why are you holding out on us? Let's see some
demonstration of your professional skills. I'm most curious about
Christian mysticism. Maybe you'd like to describe the differences and
similarities between the various forms of mysticism that you've studied
so intimately. No teacher shoud be stingy with knowledge. In your own
words, please. I want no more dictionary definitions from the Philosophy
professor.
Wet sloppy kisses,
David B.
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