Hello everyone
Bill Justin writes:
>Hello,
>
>John B. wrote something that has been scratching at me, so I thought I'd
work it out here.
>He begins with a quote from RMP:
>
>"….Where biological values are undermining social values, intellectuals
must identify social behavior,
>no matter what its ethnic connection, and support it all the way without
restraint.
>Intellectuals must find biological behavior, no matter what its ethnic
connection, and limit or destroy
>destructive biological patterns with complete moral ruthlessness, the way a
doctor destroys
>germs, before those biological patterns destroy civilization itself."
>
>John comments:
>
>"Strong stuff, and I hesitate to say I agree with it, though I appreciate
where he is coming
>from. In terms of carrot and stick, it seems to be all stick! There is a
fascist feel to these
>words that leaves me unsettled and uncomfortable."
Bill:
The sheer ruthlessness in this Pirsig quote has always bothered me too.
There's the sound of an axe being ground. Considering the murder of
Pirsig's son, it's not hard to understand why the chief anti-hero in Lila
was Jamie, the black criminal. Pirsig tries to understand Jamie, but is
blocked. Hense the above quote is left dangerously unqualified (it empowers
the semi-fascists).
Glove:
But Bill, aren't you doing just what Pirsig states must be done?
Bill writes:
One of my apprentices here in the Southern California construction biz is a
young black kid whose dad is very much like Pirsig's Jamie. A pimp and
criminal whose been in and out of jail. Once when he was out of jail his
teenage son went to him for money and the man gave him some crack and told
him to go make his own money. I've spent hours talking to the kid trying to
help him restructure the values he has learned in life and it's a tough
thing. I've had to get ruthless with him a couple times and when I do he
comes back swinging!
Glove:
now it seems to me that you are attempting to intellectually point out Good
social patterns of value to your young apprentice in the hopes that he will
come to value those more highly than the biological patterns of value that
have been his experienced values in life so far. In addition, it seems that
there is more than a hint of ruthlessness in your personal confrontation
with the particular young man you speak of, wouldn't you agree?
Bill:
The qualification to Pirsig's quote would go something like this: An
intellectual divorced from feeling, cut off from human empathy and
compassion, is ill-equipped to attack destructive biological patterns with
moral ruthlessness". Period. Decisions by the Nazi's and the Kumar Rogue
to wipe out "destructive biological patterns" were made with cold-blooded
intellectualism and minimal empathy and compassion. Some of the hippies
understood this, but does the MOQ?
Glove:
There seems to be much disagreement about this... I myself would say that
decisions to wipe out destructive biological patterns is a purely social
level phenomena and not intellectually driven at all. Remember the book
burnings in Nazi Germany? This was not a society driven by intellectuals in
any sense of the word.
The arguement (Rick's) that it was a biological level phenomena doesn't seem
to sit right with me either. The biological level is individualistic. The
mob violence atmosphere in Nazi Germany was directed not towards
individuals, but towards societies. Yes, ultimately the biological
individuals suffered and died, and so in a way I can see the point made
concerning the biological level. But it was the social level seeking to
control the status quo that attacked both the biological and the intellect
levels in the same ruthless manner.
Best wishes,
glove
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