Hi all,
I would like to discuss what I consider at this point to be a Platypus. A
radical one. I have been struggling to work out the connections between Mind
and Matter, Experience, Subjects, Objects and the Static / Dynamic split.
The emphasis is on Experience. That you and I are both having right now.
In ZMM, Phaedrus split Quality into Romantic and Classic. By Romantic
Quality he meant the experience which occurs at the "preintellectual cutting
edge of reality", which is the neglected time lag between seeing the tree
and being aware (intellectually - through thought) that you have just seen
the tree. Classic Quality is described as the analytical thought processes
which come _after_ the awareness of Quality. It is only in our Classical
examination of past Romantic Quality Experience that "subjects" (minds) and
"objects" (bodies) exist. Meaning they are "just" _ideas_.
The analogy of a train is used. The "track" on which classic boxcars of
awareness - stones, trees, music, sex and ideas - ride is Romantic Quality,
forever new and First.
This description of the ongoing process of reality is carried into Lila,
almost exactly substituting Dynamic for Romantic, and Static for Classic.
What I find this implies, and we've all seen posted about, is that
"everything" - that is, the entire universe of boxcars physical and mental -
exists only "in your head". It seems that, re: that quote to Anthony, that
Pirsig understands the physical world to come into existence only AFTER
there is a thought pattern describing the undescribable Dynamic leading edge
of Qualitative Reality.
I don't like this. We've had lots of unsolved discussion around this
question. It just seems silly to me. And contradictory to the central tenet
of MOQ Ethics - EVOLUTION. We can't claim that intellect comes first in the
perception/creation of the world, and then claim that intellect evolved from
P, B and S. If we need the neurons and social language before the thoughts
can exist to generate analogous pictures of reality, then they MUST exist
first.
Come on, guys, isn't this correct? Philosophize till your hanky falls off,
and you will never convince anyone otherwise. It's obvious. Your are born
within the confines of physical laws, then your body develops a brain
through which you are then given a language through social relationships,
which then allows you to produce thought patterns to talk about all those
valuable experiences you've been having - positive and negative.
So, I offer this. Completely and Absolutely do away with this concept of
"preintellectual cutting edge of reality". Ditch it. Now what do we see? It
eliminates the problem of which is "most" real - the track or the boxcars,
DQ or sq.
Now we must consider this fundamental idea: that Quality is not secondary
to reality, but rather that subjects and objects - thoughts and things -
revolve around the "sun of Quality". Temporally, Quality must come first.
I think that Quality DOES come first, and contradictorily to what I wrote
just above the last paragraph, it IS "preintellectual" experience.
Yes. The process of reality DOES begin with "preintellectual" experience.
Drag this concept back out of the ditch. HOWEVER, this experience which is
"preintellectual" is ALSO - this is important - ALSO - "prephysical",
"prebiological" and "presocial". The world doesn't pop into existence only
after you think about it. The physical world AND the mental world pop into
existence after you experience the Quality which generates the thoughts and
bodies. But NOT intellect, and THEN soc, bio and phys. Rather, it would seem
to me that, if one level comes first, it would be Physical(Inorganic) not
Intellectual. But I don't think that is right either. I think that they all
occur together, after Quality "decides" to experience itself in such and
such a manner.
So you, then, cannot solely be your thoughts, nor your body. You must be
Quality, which is Experience, which Creates your thoughts and physical
movements. Hmmm.... You experience Yourself. funny. Is this what those crazy
Advaitin Vedantist Hindus mean by "Atman equals Brahman"? And "Tat Tvam
Asi"? Neat.
Kev, you are right I think. Everything is ONE. However, can you see this
ONE as being Quality - undivided? NOT Dynamic Quality, but just Quality?
Remember that we can split Quality in an infinite amount of ways.
This One, which is Quality, which is You the Self, may be understood quite
valuably as being static and Dynamic. Okay, good. But remember in ZMM how
upset Phaedrus was that the knife of subjectivity / objectivity split
Quality itself, leaving TWO kinds? Well, don't you see that that is what we
have been doing with static/Dynamic? We have been looking at these as very
_different_ things, whereas they must be the same, yes? Or two sides of one
coin?
Well, I have found it well to now understand EVERYTHING as Quality, just
Quality, that's all. Now, it may be described as static or Dynamic. But -
these don't have to be diametrically opposed "things". In fact, I can see
them as continuations of each other.
This leads to the view that Quality is Graded. It exists in varying
Degrees:
------------Quality is MORE or LESS Dynamic.
Which is EXACTLY the same thing as saying that:
------------Quality is MORE or LESS static.
The Difference is not one: Time-lengths, as given in ZMM to describe
Romantic and Classic.
Rather, it is a Difference of: Freedom. Freedom and Will. And the freer,
well, the more willed, and, well, the BETTER.
Rog, remember we joked of Phaedrus being "prejudiced" against "s"Q? Does
this help you eliminate that prejudice, by seeing sQ as not fundamentally
inferior and different than DQ, but rather just less Dynamic Quality? And
Dynamic Quality as just less static?
And here is what I like best. Take that tree. Go look at it. Smell it.
Touch it. Love it. Whatever. That tree is BOTH static AND Dynamic Quality.
It is a moral system which is both free (very limited) and determined -
static and Dynamic.
OOOPpsss... gotta go, shift's over. All criticism is valued.
Rich
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