Hello everyone
Kevin writes:
>Dear Glove:
>
>I must ideological thump you for the following pessimistic crap:
Ok... I will attempt to spell out why I say what I say from a Metaphysics of
Quality point of view... these are not necessarily "my" ideas but how things
are according to how I view the MOQ...
Glove:
>
>: "...mankind will never be perfect, or even approach perfection, for
>: perfection is in the individual and not to be found in society... man and
>: woman may approach perfection in spirit and in action... indeed even
>become
>: perfection in spirit and action... but that perfection is something
>Dynamic
>: and unseen. There will always be war and poverty, crime and hate, just as
>: there will always be sharing and prosperity, Good deeds and love."
>
Kevin:
>If one person can love, the whole world can love. If one person can live
>freely, the whole world can live freely. For what are we but a rather large
>group of persons.
Glove:
Not according to the MOQ... the four levels are expressly about group
Dynamics versus individual Dynamics. One person can love, oh yes... but the
social level is not just a bunch of one persons... the social level is not a
living being, not a "thing" we can point at. Only a living being is capable
of love, and not the social level... this is all part of Pirsig's warning
about altruism. And this is also why the intellect level is of higher value
than is the social level, for the intellect level is individualistic.
Kevin:
And we can build a society founded on love and freedom if
>we only put the pessimism and greed and evil behind us. War, crime,
>poverty, and hate can be prevented - good deeds can be chosen over bad
>ones.
Glove:
All this can be accomplished individually but not socially... not in our
present day free-market society. The law of supply and demand works on the
principle of not-enough-to-go-around. If such a thing as free energy were
possible, our free-market society would never allow it. Pirsig says
(paraphrased) that to think so is naïve and dangerous. The entrenched
power-brokers will never allow the end of war... war is profitable. It
always has been, and probably always will be.
People like you thought slavery inevitable - its now abolished in
>every major country in the world. People like you thought women would
>always remain oppressed - their struggle continues to win all over the
>world. People like you though feudalism would remain the perpetual system
>of goverance or the Rome would never fall - things change and sometimes for
>the better. Perhaps it will take a spiritual/mystical revival on a
>world-wide scale, perhaps there will be a war to end all wars, perhaps
>decentralized socialist goverance will be copied in every nation, but there
>is a way to reach greater perfection. But your pessimism becomes
>self-fulfilling because it justifies not reaching for perfection. Your
>pessimism justifies allowing poor children to starve in the street, war to
>kill millions, and hate to spread in your midst, while you do nothing. This
>nihilistic attitude is evil and I cannot condone it in my midst. So in
>short, I staunchly disagree.
Glove:
I would save all sentient beings, if only I could. Please remember that to
strive for perfection will always result in the Shadow, the Dark Side,
whatever one cares to call it. The Metaphysics of Quality gives us
guidelines for building a better tomorrow, this I will agree with. But it
comes only with a certain amount of ruthlessness. As Bill said, Jesus told
us that there will be poor always, pathetically struggling, and he said to
look at the Good things we have.
I again remind you that I am not a pessimist, nor am I a realist. I simply
see how things are, and there is nothing I can do to save the world until I
am able to save myself. And that is the very same boat everyone is in.
Society is not going to save us... it may make survival easier for us
individually, but that always comes with a price... the loss of individual
liberties. Only the intellect can find a way to oppose the social level, for
the biological level has already been dominated by society. And the
intellect does not reside in the group, only in the individual.
>
>
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