Hi Ian and Denis and MD,
Denis Poisson wrote:
>
> Hi,
> First post to the MoQ_discuss, so let me introduce myself. My name is
> Denis Poisson, from Paris, France. Hope I can help with this problem,
> here.
Greetings Denis! Welcome to MOQ Discuss. I may be mistaken, but I
believe you are the first member from France.
> > Intellectual patterns cannot
> > directly control biological patterns. Only social patterns can control
> > biological patterns, "
> [Maggie]
> Q-social patterns are formed through imitation and retained through
> habit. (McPartlin, 1998)
> Q-social interactions involve awareness of pre-determined rank to
> determine which social pattern is to be followed. No thought is
> involved. This is automatic
> Human q-social patterns are hard to see. One reason is because many
> q-social patterns imitate intellectual events that have occurred in the
> past. Nevertheless, once intellectual decisions are repeated and become
> automatic, they are no longer intellectual patterns. They are actually
> q-social. (They also become invisible to the conscious self, which is
> the part of the human entity that discusses metaphysics. )
>
> [Denis]
> The part I find most interesting, is that once an intellectual pattern
> is learned it becomes automatic, and therefore ingrained into the social
> level.
I think a lot of confusion arises from equating the intellectual level
with thought itself. As you pointed out, Pirsig doesn't explain the
intellectual level as much as we would like. However, Bodvar Skutvik
(lately only in the LS) has proposed that the intellectual level can be
thought of as subject/object logic - not thought itself, but a
particular kind of thought that has pervaded Western thinking at least
since Descartes. Prior to the Enlightenment, it can be argued that we
did not possess subject/object logic. Pirsig, of course, places the
advent of the intellectual level much later than that. According to
him, the intellectual level didn't arise until the end of the Victorian
era. Well, since we obviously did *think* before then, then he must
mean that the intellectual level is something beyond plain thought.
Interesting to think about anyway...;)
Best wishes,
Mary
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