ROGER JUMPS INTO THE FREE WILL DISCUSSION
I have really enjoyed the exchanges from the two of you all day. I have been
interested in exploring this issue since Rich brought it up well over a month
ago. The dialogue today and the related recent posts in our sister forum have
been first rate.
Drose wrote:
>I try not to redefine standard philosophical terms if I can avoid it. In
> this case I'm on admittedly shaky ground to start with since free will
>and determinism are both dismissed as irrelevant by Pirsig.
Mark replied:
>In the MoQ, I think we are left with either abandoning "free will" and
>"determinism" or redefining them so that they can be used in a way that a)
>does not completely contradict Pirsig's redefinition of choice (he did that
>one in the sections quoted and elsewhere in Lila) and b) does not
>completely contradict what people most often mean by free will in SOM terms.
>I think that my redefinition of free will/determinism as a continuum that
>is analogous with dynamic/static does that.
Roger:
The free will vs determinism platypus should be eliminated by simply stating
that the universe is not deterministic. This is a moot point on a quantum
level and, for all practical matters, it is meaningless in complex/chaotic
systems as well (such as living beings). So where is the SOM platypus if one
side of the argument no longer exists? Pirsig possibly shot a straw man on
this topic. Certainly, I agree with Drose that determinism is irrelevant.
As for WILL, also known as FREE WILL.... as Mark says, it is considered free
to the degree it is free from external control. In the other forum Mark
defines internal as one's own desires/values. My issue with this has been
that we are using values to determine our will... we will what we value, but
we also use values to define ourselves..... we are a pattern of values. To a
great extent, we are our will.
Mark's suggestion is that we view free will as a continuum works well for me.
At the inorganic level, the world involves limited quantum choice (which we
call probability) . Living beings are substantially freer to choose options.
With the intellect, man can envision multiple models of reality and choose
those that are of greatest projected value. In each level, the will becomes
freer, more dynamic, and the range of potential becomes greater. Freedom and
will therefore grow together up the levels as more value patterns become
possible.
This creates an evolutionary direction where patterns gain in complexity,
will becomes more free, and experience becomes increasingly rich.
It works for me.
Roger
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