David.
David writes:
The 1940's is a time when the whole world had gone insane.
World war two represents a total collaspe of morality and civilization.
The United States simply was not immune to that collapse. The allied
powers had no magical protection and was quite involved in the same
crazyness.
Clark writes: I agree
I mean how
irrational is your claim that "there were no innocent civilians"? This
is a kind of demonization that takes rational debate off the table. Of
course there were innocent civilians in Japan. By that kind of reasoning
we ought to kill the family, friends and neighbors of all our convicted
murderers, not just the guilty individual. I agree that fire-bombing an
entire city has the same effect as an atomic bomb, but that only means
that they are equally immoral.
Clark writes: If the family and friends of the murderer were supplying him
weapons and food and shelter and encouraging him to commit more murders
then they should be subject to the same treatment that the murderer gets.
We were involved in a war which we could not afford to lose and we were
forced to fight it in the way which we had been presented. I am not arguing
that any part of the war was moral. I don't think it was. I am not arguing
that there was not a better way to handle the A-bomb. What I am arguing is
that given the way that events played out using the bomb was more moral
than invading Japan. in the context of the times I don't believe that the
American public would have stood for anything less than unconditional
surrender. I agree that if we had told the Japanese that they could keep
their ruler and their government intact we may have gotten them to
surrender. Insisting on unconditional surrender probably made inevitable
the use of the bomb but I think it was the only course that Americans would
have stood for.
It burns me up when someone like Nobile makes the statement that Truman
should be tried and convicted as a war criminal. It reflects a complete
lack of understanding of the events at that time.
With all due respect, I think you have a personal interest in these
events that makes rational debate impossible. It seems this topic only
upsets you and its gotten pretty far from the MOQ. What do you say, lets
just be friends and move on to another topic.
Clark writes:
You bet I have a personal interest in those events. That is why it upsets
me when someone selects one aspect (the dropping of the bomb) of the
events at the time and judges that event in the light of current ideas of
morality. You can point to all of the collateral damage that resulted from
the dropping of the bomb, radiation sickness and so forth, but we did not
have enough knowledge to even realize that these were problems of such
magnitude. We were not even sure that the bomb would detonate. Imagine what
would have happened had we tried to make an offshore demonstration of the
bomb and it did not work. Truman probably made the only feasible decision
that was available. Then to have some pipsqueak like Nobile judge him in a
new age light is just too much. A-bombing Japan was a watershed event in
history which should be judged in the light of conditions prevailing at
that time.
According to the book review Nobile bills himself as the Daniel Ellsberg
(a la Nixon) of the A-bombing of Japan. Obviously he is out to make a name
for himself on the backs of the men who were wrestling with decisions for
which they had insufficient information to base a fully informed judgement.
They did the best they could under the circumstances and it worked and
saved lives. A lot of Japanese lives and even more American lives. Any
further use of the bomb in the light of a more complete understanding of
its consequences would certainly be immoral.
I am ready to drop this. I am sure that I will never convince you that
the premises under which you consider Truman to be a war criminal are ill
informed and I am equally sure that you will never convince me that you
have a sufficient grasp of the conditions of that time to make a well
informed judgement. Ken
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