--- RISKYBIZ9@aol.com wrote:
> MYSTIC WANNA-BE ROG AGREES 100% WITH DAVE.
> DQ HAS BEEN IN THE VALLEYS ALL ALONG
>
> To The Good Dave :-)
>
> >ROGER
> >1) DQ is [everyday] Direct Experience.
> >2) Reality is composed of Direct Experience.
> >3) Conceptualizing is one such experience.
> Conceptualizing is the
> >experience of building models of ourselves and our
> world. Conceptualizing
> >builds static, shallow (though extremely useful)
> patterns out of dynamic
> >prepatterned reality.
> >4) The conceptualized, patterned world is a model
> built from DQ [events
> >emanating from the pool of ultimate reality.
> Quality]
> >
> >DAVE
> >Admire your patient snipping, quoting, and
> commentary. [Brackets are my
> >additions] Don't think you should abandon the
> "everyday" position in that I
> >feel the SQ/DQ LS discussion is about this very
> point. I have been
> >concentrating my reading over the past few months
> on Zen and Zen history and
> >have come to the conclusion that Zen
> "enlightenment" or "satori" is in part
> >about changing ones point of view such that DQ is
> able to become an
> >intuitive
> >part of every day existence. Believe Pirsig
> suggests the same.
> >
> >Pirsig's references to hurricanes, heart attacks,
> and hot stoves is merely a
> >way to rhetorically and practically show that
> everyone does and has
> >experienced DQ. but that static patterns can and do
> become so pervasive that
> >the everyday experience of DQ is overlooked, lost,
> or shielded from
> >perception.
>
> ROG:
> Thank you very much. I like your bracket additions.
> I read Pirsig exactly as
> you comment here. In fact, I think you have said it
> all clearer than I did
> in 20 posts. Even though the evolutionary culling of
> ideas is quality, it is
> nice to get a word of encouragement and a gleam of
> agreement once or twice
> too. I think your Zen explorations with Suzuki and
> my explorations of Nishida
> have led us to common views on some angles of the
> MOQ that were always there,
> but were somehow hidden before. I literally glossed
> over 90% of the mystical
> angles in Lila until I saw similarities in the Zen
> philosophy of the Kyoto
> school. Then they became suddenly obvious.
>
> They say a change in consciousness is like that.
> When Psychiatrists pour a
> glass of water back and forth between a short fat
> glass and a tall thinner
> one and ask children of 3 or 4 years-of-age which
> has more water the kids
> will always say the tall one. Even though the water
> goes back and forth in
> front of their eyes.
>
> A few years later the kids will all say that they
> hold the same amount.
> Suddenly they shift to a keener level of insight.
> (Though Kevin may
> disagree...ha ha) If shown a video of themselves at
> a younger age saying the
> tall one holds more water, they will not believe
> they could ever possibly
> have thought that way. Some even accuse the film of
> being tampered with!
>
> There are few concepts that I disagree with more
> than what David B. wrote on
> the LS. He said (to paraphrase from memory...sorry)
> that the workplace is
> one of the last places he would expect to find
> Dhyana. This is to me the
> exact antithesis of the MOQ. This is exactly where
> Pirsig tells us to look
> for it. Everyday reality. Not on the esoteric and
> distant mountaintops, but
> in the valleys. Not in some once in a lifetime
> event, but while going to
> work or brushing my teeth. At least that is where I
> am looking .
>
> And I don't care if I am wrong
> Rog
> please delete this address from your list. it was used by another
person and has now been unsubscribed. thanks! bjeanboop
> .
>
>
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