ROGER AGREES WITH DAVID
(Huh???)
Hey David, I can see the Pragmatic truth of your model. The following
quotes all sound reasonable to me....(see below)
Roger
PS -- Did we accomplish anything?
[David Buchanan] Well, I guess its my poor communication
skills. But I did say explicitly, and several times, that MAIN POINT and
MAIN OBJECTION has to do with intellectual static patterns and their
mediation through the four levels. Its pretty bad when we can't even
agree what were talking about
> [David Buchanan] Uh, Oh. I didn't intent to say that
> intellectual patterns are "base reality" and I don't think its true.
> Wonder how you got that impression? I'm not even sure what it means, let
> alone agree with it.
>
> In other contexts, I've refered to DQ as "the ground of being".
> So to say DQ is base reality ok.
> [David Buchanan] Trying to tempt me with a SOM trap, eh?
[Rog] He he he
[David]
> Really "out there", eh? We can step around that pit-fall. Yes. I've been
> saying that the intellect is one fourth of static quality, that is one
> of the four levels, and I wouldn't say the other 3 are "out there" so
> much much as they are "in there". This is very much related to the
> mediation issue too. As I've been saying, our intellectual descriptions
> (observations) must be "filtered" thru the other layers, all of which
> are within us. Microcosm is a pretty good word for this idea.
> [David Buchanan] Well, our intellect does label stuff. That
> which we formerly refered to as "substance" has been re-labeled
> inorganic static patterns of quality, for example. And we can imagine it
> in other ways too. But I think that is just about the evolution of our
> intellectual models about that which is labeled. Again, I think there
> are two "things", and even though we can't know the ultimate truth
> about these labeled things, I don't doubt its reality And the test of
> truth in these matters is one of Pragmatism. Does the model work? That's
> the question. Is it useful? I think its perfectly legitimate, especially
> in the MOQ, to accept the limits of the intellect, without throwing it
> way in frustration.
> [David Buchanan] I've been saying the opposite, intellect is
> indirect and mediated thru all the levels.
>
>
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