> ROGER:
> Quality is the relationship of all four. Quality creates the
relationship. I in the MOQ all is Quality. Therefore it may be more
> appropriate to say "Artistic Quality involves the fusion of all four
factors."
Avid:
This is true, but my claim is much stronger: ONLY the FUSION of all four
gives us Artistic Quality. There is no Artistic Quality UNLESS ALL FOUR are
represented, and the art cycle is formed. The cycle is the evidence of its
quality, quality is what holds all the cycle together, and the cycle is the
representation of the quality. This is why this art cycle is a good
candidate for artistic SPQ.
********
ROGER:
> What? Allow me to drop your two new confusing terms. You seem to be
saying
> there is Artistic and non artistic quality. Right?
AVID:
Yes, there is Artistic quality [ a quality that is theoretically bound to
the WT - working theory of the artwork], and all other qualities [that have
nothing to do with the WT of the artwork] can be labeled as non artistic
qualities. examples: economic quality - the artwork is expensive. historic
quality the artwork was the last done before the artist died etc. All have
nothing to do with the artistic quality of the artwork.
ROGER:
Then you say that the
> art cycle can't be in both cycles at once. Why? Can't an experience be
> multidimensional? (I bet Glove will love your statement here though).
AVID:
It can APPEAR multidimentional, but it is creating many cycles, One only is
artistic. The other cycles can be economic cycle [a n economic SPQ showing
economic value] the artwork is there as value object, and the audience and
the economists are there to evaluate it economically according to an
economic WT [working theory] [capitalism, for example]. It can be a historic
cycle [a historic SPQ showing historic quality] The Artwork is there a
historic object connected to a historic WT [which explains why this object
carries historic value] and an audience to evaluate it historically etc.
Because the object WAS FORMED UNDER ART WT artistic SPQ [or cycle] will be
the Autonomical aspect, all other aspects will be HETEROnomical aspects.
[old] AVID:
> Remember, the revolution of this theory is that it says THAT IT HOLDS
> QUALITY ONLY IF ALL 4 ELEMENTS ARE FUSED, namely holding the cycle
together.
ROGER:
> The artistic quality involves the quality and fusing of all four elements.
AVID:
The artistic quality involves the quality GENERATED FROM THE fusing of all
four elements
[old] AVID:
> Please notice:
> 1. There is no Object or subject standing alone, and they all are part of
a
> definition cycle that is a holder of quality.
> 2. If we put in the layers we could easily see that the agent and the
> audience come from a previous order and the WT and the object are of the
new
> Order.
>
> ROGER:
> Put in what layers? What is the new and the previous order?
AVID:
A cultural SPQ will be made of a social agent and social audience
A social SPQ will be made of biological agent and biological audience etc.
> AVID:
> 3. The active holders of quality are the audience, they are those who
alter
> the quality in time.
>
> ROGER:
> Huh? What is an Active holder? Do you mean on a temporal level?
Avid:
OH YES, the question is how IN TIME what used to be a beautiful SPQ a holder
of quality, changed IN TIME and became hollow and dogmatic [VALUES ARE
SITUATIONAL NOT ETERNAL]. How does it happen? who makes the change?
Here it is suggested the the continuity of a quality in a SPQ is an active
awareness process [as in bishop Barclays' philosophy an idea is held by
somebody or its lost]. IT IS AN *ING FORM. The audience of social groups
carries or alters a SPQ quality.
[old] AVID:
> 4. Here too autonomical and hetronomical qualities stand.
>
> ROGER:
> ???
AVID:
Here too we have certain qualities being held by audiences regarding to the
WT [working theory] the object is judged by, in the Autonomical aspect it
was produced by the same WT that it is judged by, in heteronomical quality
it is judged by a DIFFERENT WT then it was produced by.
[old] AVID:
> 5. The circular definition guarantees that DQ cannot stand alone, or be
> defined, all meaning is internal to the field of meaning [hence the cycle
of
> SPQ is an ever active cycle] alone, it has no meaning whatsoever outside
the
> cycle [circular definition].
>
> ROGER:
> I agree that reality has no meaning at all without this cycle of DQ to
SPQ.
AVID:
THE CYCLE IS THE SPQ, it dynamic side is the content holding together by the
audience, once there is no more audience, the cycle is broken no more
quality there, DQ is the non definable of the quality experience, it is a
non analytic leftover, nothing to do with SPQ [the cycle].
ROGER:
> If you could walk me through slower I would appreciate it.
Avid:
Give me a blackboard and a teaching post [in your university maybe and
everything will be crystal clear, till then bombard me with how many
questions you want, I'll try to answer them all.
and don't forget to be gentle
Avid
icq 6598359
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