Rog
My last LS post was one side of the coin and while my mind is still on track
I'll finish up with the other side of MoQ intellect issue appropriately over
here on the left side. (or is it the right side?) Whichever it is the "right"
place to continue the discussion at this time.
Over there, I characterised your position as "Idealism" but that, as you know
and I agree, is not right for nowhere does Pirsig claim reality is "only in
our minds" But he might have well have given his emphasis and use of rhetoric.
As he is pounding on the rhetorical table we tend to overlook the minor key
qualifications,implied regressions, the "almost" dominants,the "ifs" and "buts".
Rather than state (as Popper does)that metaphysics, by its very nature, will
be infinitely regressive at some level, he rhetorically calls them "degenerate
activities". Basically the same thing but more difficult to interpret in just
that way. His classic "buffalo" for most of us and the one that drives Bo to
distraction is:
> >Among these patterns is the intellectual pattern that says
> >there is an external world of things out there which are
> >independent of intellectual patterns".
> >
> >That is one of the highest quality intellectual patterns
> >there is. And in this highest quality intellectual
> >pattern, external objects appear historically before
> >intellectual patterns...
> >
> >But this highest quality intellectual pattern itself comes
> >before the external world, not after, as is commonly presumed by the
> >materialists.
All he would have had to do is have modified the last statement to-
> >But (from a human perspective, given the fallablity of perception, finite nature of the mind, and other considerations) this highest quality intellectual pattern itself (for an individual) comes before the external world, not after, as is commonly presumed by the materialists.
Had he, we could easily turn to someone like Popper and introduce his concept
of Realism for greater understanding and merit. Listening first to Poppers qualifications;
"My thesis is that realism is neither demonstrable nor refutable, ...It shares
this ..with many philosophical or "metaphysical theories, in particular ..with
idealism. But it is arguable, and the weight of the arguments is
overwhelmingly in its favor... Moreover, there are many sorts of real things.
The most obvious sort is..foodstuffs..and stone..and trees..and humans. But
there are many other sorts of reality which are quite different..our
experience with these foodstuff,stones,trees and humans ...[and] other sorts
of this many-sorted universe are: toothache, a word,a language,a highway code,
a novel, a government decision..."
ETC ETC,.... and then say: "And the best way to sort and keep track of these
realities is under the umbrella of the MoQ as stable patterns of value with
its four somewhat descrete, evolving, and interacting levels of quality"
But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry just watched the SNL 25th anniversary.
Dance with the ghosts if you will, I'll be skipping with the trees and
buggees. Possibly your ghost could meet mine in the smoke of a campfire after
we tire of our danc'n and we'll roast some ghosty wiennies. The nice thing
about them is absolutely no fat or calories and not one hog has to die.
DLT
PS: This will probably appear before the LS post so like the WEB "Please wait
until the LS screen loads" before you rip me a new one!
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