Hi MOQers:
The fearful and prejudiced attitudes toward mind-altering drugs is
certainly understandable, and the expression of such fears is going to
resonate with everyone on a certain level, but that doesn't make it
right or true. Pirsig himself took such drugs and thought he might build
his whole book around the experience. So if Struan is correct, Pirsig is
hypocritcial about Zen Buddhism, he's a cultural pirate, a brainless
oaf, is utterly immoral and has a fried mind. Who is picking and
choosing here? Are you saying Pirsig is wrong on his main point? I
realize these insults weren't directed at Pirsig, but that is the
implication, isn't it?
And he ends this string of insulting characterizations by saying he's
"not making any personal judgements on the morality of using drugs"? I
suppose this is an example of the clarity of mind Struan refers to? Its
pretty clear to me that this level of hostility is way out of
proportion. We're just talking. I really don't understand Struan's
hair-triggered spitefulness. Why does he feel the need to be cruel in
making his points? He's no philosopher, he's just plain mean. And
there's no doubt that the fear of revenge is a big wet blanket on our
discussions. Who isn't a little more reluctant to venture an opinion in
such a climate? What a drag.
And this petty tyrant now has Lind apologizing for being offended.
That's twisted. I'm so sorry if you hurt your knuckles while punching me
in the nose. Can you ever forgive me for having such a hard face?
IF THE DOORS OF PERCEPTION WERE CLEANSED...
The mystical experience, as described by Blake, Huxley, Beard and others
is precisely about seeing things clearly. Its about an expansion of
awareness, not a distortion or clouding of the mind. Anyone who recalls
my posts on "dhyana", which is just a different form of the word "Zen",
knows that I think Struan is correct about Zen's respect for clarity of
mind, but its not right to equate the proper use of drugs with a lack of
clarity. Isn't it obvious that the most demeaning descriptions of such a
state of mind only come from those who freely admit to never having had
such an experience. The most insulting characterizations come from those
who literally don't know what they're talking about, and therefore ought
not be taken seriously. This is why mysticism's detractors offer up
negative stereotypes instead of offering any real intellectual
citicisms. Would you rather hear about Paris from someone who has never
been there or from someone who has visited many times? Which
conversation would be most helpful to one who was planning a trip?
Duh!?! By Struan's reckoning the ignorant one ought to be the travel
consultant.
By contrast, John B can disagree without hostility. And I think there's
a lot of truth in what he says. DQ doesn't depend on mind-altering
drugs. It can be encountered in the artistic process and other "natural"
states. And its true that the use of these drugs is a kind of shortcut.
But so are planes, trains and automobiles. We can think of these drugs
as a powerful technology, and the abuse of any such power is bound to be
dangerous. I will accept the risk of those transportation machines
because the benifit of them is simply worth it. And besides, for the
most part, getting to that state of mind without any help from our
friends in the plant world usually requires some pretty serious abuse of
the organism itself; fasting, sleep deprivation, 40 days in the
wilderness, etc. This method is ALMOST a kind of near-death experience
and is extremely dangerous. It almost always does real physical damage
to the person, and in that repsect the proper use of peyote is a whole
lot safer. The "pure" method can take a lifetime, but the native
Americans and most other primary people get it done in an evening. I
think the choice is clear, provided one wants to head in that direction
at all.
I wonder if we can really have a discussion about this. I'm BEGGING
everyone to remain civil, especially those who disagree. Please, share
your thoughts, but keep the purpose of this forum in mind.
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