platt,
please dont take offence to this, it;s just an observation, but do you ever
give an opinion or do you just say what pirsig said?
i know he said it best but i think we are here to debate rather than give
absolute truth.
Regards
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: Platt Holden <pholden5@earthlink.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 1999 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: MD The faces of Quality.
Hi Ken,
IMHO Pirsig makes it clear that Dynamic Quality is no different
from your "Evolutionary Quality" and that it was around long before
intellect ever put in an appearance.
>From Lila, Chap. 11:
"Good! The "undefined fittest" they are defending is identical to
Dynamic Quality. Natural selection is Dynamic Quality at work.
There is no quarrel whatsoever between the Metaphysics of Quality
and the Darwinian Theory of Evolution. Neither is there a quarrel
between the Metaphysics of Quality and the "teleological" theories
which insist that life has some purpose. What the Metaphysics of
Quality has done is unite these opposed doctrines within a larger
metaphysical structure that accommodates both of them without
contradiction."
"On the other hand, the shift in cell reproduction from mitosis to
meiosis to permit sexual choice and allow huge DNA diversification
is a Dynamic advance. So is the collective organization of cells into
metazoan societies called plants and animals. So are sexual
choice, symbiosis, death and regeneration, communality,
communication, speculative thought curiosity and art. Most of
these, when viewed in a substance-centered evolutionary way, are
thought of as mere incidental properties of the molecular machine.
But in a value-centered explanation of evolution they are close to
the Dynamic process itself, pulling the pattern of life forward to
greater levels of versatility, and freedom.
"Sometimes a Dynamic increment goes forward but can find no
latching mechanism and so fails and slips back to a previous
latched position. Whole species and cultures get lost this way.
Sometimes a static pattern becomes so powerful it prohibits any
Dynamic moves forward. In both cases the evolutionary process is
halted for a while. But when it's not halted the result has been an
increase in power to control hostile forces or an increase in
versatility or both. The increase in versatility is directed toward
Dynamic Quality. The increase in power to control hostile forces is
directed toward static quality. Without Dynamic Quality the
organism cannot grow. Without static quality the organism cannot
last. Both are needed."
>From Lila Chap. 12
"So what Phaedrus was saying was that not just life, but
everything, is an ethical activity. It is nothing else. When inorganic
patterns of reality create life the Metaphysics of Quality postulates
that they've done so because it's "better" and that this definition of
"betterness"-this beginning response to Dynamic Quality-is an
elementary unit of ethics upon which all right and wrong can be
based."
I don't mean to bore you with these long quotes. Just quoting the
line, "Natural selection is Dynamic Quality at work" should be
sufficient to refute your idea that there are two different types of
Dynamic Quality in Lila, one that operated before humans and
another that came after. I don't see where Pirsig makes any such
distinction, nor can I find a single reference in Pirsig's writings to
"Evolutionary Quality."
Finally, it makes no sense to me that a "good universe" would
deliberately set about to create a bunch of not-so-good human
beings. Isn't there a contradiction in there someplace?
Best,
Platt
> Apropros of nothing I feel a desire to point out to you that the DQ that
is
> talked about here is not the Evolutionary Quality that produced the
> universe.
> This DQ is human DQ otherwise it could not be "the preintellectual
> cutting edge of reality (No intellect when Evolutionary Quality operates).
> I seem to be the only one who thinks that Pirsig talks about the operation
> of two different types of Quality in Lila, Evolutionary Quality which was
> present at the beginning and is responsible for the good and valuable and
> moral universe which we inhabit, and Human Dynamic Quality which operates
> alongside of Evolutionary Quality and is capable of producing functions
> which are not moral. It seems he uses Evolutionary Quality and Dynamic
> Quality to distinguish the two. Ken
MOQ Online Homepage - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Unsubscribe - http://www.moq.org/md/index.html
MD Queries - horse@wasted.demon.nl
MOQ Online Homepage - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Unsubscribe - http://www.moq.org/md/index.html
MD Queries - horse@wasted.demon.nl
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:03:14 BST