In a message dated 11/29/99 5:15:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,
marder@agri.huji.ac.il writes:
> >>PLATT's latest post raises questions about that yardstick:
> >>Still, I'm far from satisfied with the alternative proposed by Jonathan
> >>and others about relying on man's innate moral sense to guide us...
xcto: I think that we are not relying on man's innate moral sense, but the
fact of that's all we have at all. So much of our personal moral sense was
not created by us. In fact, I believe we are created by the the prevailing
moral sense or our respective societies. How we change our moral sense is
the strength of our intellectual level.
>
> That's what I wrote over 2 weeks ago, and I see that no-one has been
holding
> their breath.
> To put it bluntly, nobody has really produced a satisfactory definition of
> what morality actually is.
I thought it's pretty simple...a system of principles of right and wrong.
What's the argument???
> The problem is exacerbated because Pirsig contradicts himself. On the one
> hand he insists that patterns, morals and values are all synonymous. On the
> other hand, he divides up value patterns into 4 levels, and divides morals
> up into 5 orders:
> 1. chaos vs. inorganic
> 2. inorganic vs. bio.
> 3. bio. vs. soc
> 4. soc. vs. intellectual
> 5. DQ vs SQ
>
> Maybe I'm being pedantic, but 4 doesn't equal 5, and this contradicts the
> value=moral equation.
> Thus, I think we have to proceed very carefully from the ground up, and not
> assume that Lila has all the answers.
Well, Jonathan, I really don't see moral patterns, morals, and values all as
synonomous, and I want to read where Pirsig says that. I can't agree with
that. I see where values=quality, but I see morals as principles of value
judgement, and moral patterns are systems of consistent morals. To me that
would clear up all your other problems THAT ARE STATED HERE.
Is this what all those people were talking about when they were discussing
complexity?
xcto
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