Hullo David,
What a pleasant post. You have condensed my issues without distortion, and I appreciate
your response. A few quick comments.
MORAL DEBATES
Yes. We don't argue about the issues, all too often, but about our investment in those issues,
which is usually very selective. Indeed, most of what we debate is our projections and
fantasy. If this was a therapy group it would be grist for the mill. Its not, and I for one find the
moral assumptions of some participants just plain awful. I admire those who take up on
these, though it seems rare that anything changes because of this. I just don't have the
stomach for this. I can find enough of the same in my neighbourhood. This seems to be one
situation where 'think globally, act locally' might be relevant. I'm sort of breaking my own
rules by saying this, because this sort of talk only stirs people up and solves nothing.
MOQ DEBATE
Yes, there is some good stuff; yours included. Robert Stillwell contributed a couple of
sentences once that I treasure and give copies of to friends. Yet when I face close to 100
messages on my slow old machine my heart sinks. I could read a book in that time. So for
self protection I shall have to find ways to reduce my time here. I enjoy posting, but I am
really putting personal contact first in my life just now. That takes time.
SECRET LONELINESS
I am so pleased you opined that my expectations are only high, not unrealistic. You assert
that connection is possible on a cyber-forum. I'm sure you are right. But life is a limited
resource. I'm heavily involved in several 'live' groups, am spending quite a lot of time in
neuroprocessing just now to explore particularly alpha-theta states (I've discovered how easy
it is to get into deep meditative states - pleasant but not something I'm rushing to promote
yet). I have an apprentice start with me in a few weeks. And I like to read widely. Priorities...
RESIGNATION
Not yet. I was going to pull the pin on MD, when Horse went and switched this debate to that
forum. I'm writing an alternative metaphysics which if it works out I will want to submit. I will
attempt to become more selective.
EXISTENTIAL MOMENT
I wonder if we are talking about the same thing. For me the term indicates that moment when
a person (often about 7 years of age) suddenly sees him/herself as separate from all else. As
an object, in one sense, but also as a subject. Now how does the MOQ put that existential
moment back into the picture, as you express it? It doesn't follow for me. I am aware that I
have used the terms object and subject, and I accept that the alienation that to me goes with
this existential awakening might be linked to that, but I don't see it. I also fail to see how
Pirsig deals with this awakening. Perhaps I have a blind spot here?
Sartre eventually bailed out of his early existentialism because he couldn't stand the
isolation, but jumping into bed with socialist orthodoxy (as he did) doesn't seem attractive
either. I joined a socialist oriented political party recently to help redress the right wing swing
in our society, but I'm under no illusions about what drives politics, of the left or right. For me
it was a tactical decision to do something which might offer the opportunity for influence, as
against sitting back and complaining.
WAKING FROM THE ILLUSION OF ISOLATION
A wonderful phrase of yours. All the mystic alarm bells go off for me, though. Theoretically
this makes good sense, yet it is not my experience. Of course I exaggerate. I have the good
fortune to have the company of many fine people. Yet a part of me is never satisfied. I'm a
foundation member of the "needy, greedy and now" club. So maybe my craving for 'quality' in
relationships is just neurotic. I would like to think otherwise. When I examine the
relationships of mystics like Krishnamurti, (as best I can from biographies etc) I get the sort of
aura of detachment that drove Phaedrus to leave Benares Hindu University. There seems
something missing. If the deaths in Hiroshima aren't quite real, nor is human relationship, or
so it seems from the outside. So anything you can contribute on this will be read with real
interest.
John B
(PS I liked your essay, with one of my favourite songs as a coda.)
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