> -----Original Message-----
> From: Platt Holden [SMTP:pholden5@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 9:24 AM
> To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> Subject: Re: MD Looking out for one another
>
> Just a few words in response to Platt who had said...
>
> PLATT
> By MoQ standards the message of "caring" is as fine an example of static
> morality as you're likely to find. Nor has caring always been the beacon
> of
> hope for humanity that some attribute to it. After all, caring for the
> souls of
> nonbelievers was the excuse for the tortures of the Inquisition, and
> caring for
> the purity of the human race was the rationale for Nazi genocide. Caring
> can
> cut many ways. (The Russians currently care a lot about not losing
> Chechnya in the name of preserving the Russian "union.")
>
> DMB says
> While "caring" isn't exactly the word I would choose, its not bad. Its not
> too far away from value. We care about things and we value them. Its
> roughly the same idea. Just as there are levels of static value, there are
> different levels of care. And so I disagree with Platt's assumption that
> "caring" is strictly a social level thing. All excuses and rationales
> aside, there is no way Platt is ever going to convince me that torture and
> genocide are done out of care. Pirsig says quite explicitly that Hilter
> extremely anti-intellectual and that nearly everything he did was
> motivated by that. And the inquisitors had similar motivations and were
> reacting to the whole Copernicus thing. Its interesting that Plattt should
> site these two examples. Hmmm. The evil we recognize in these two examples
> doesn't come from caring about social values so much as a hostility to
> other values. And in these two examples, the values being rejected were at
> a higher level of evolution than the values that were allegedly being
> protected. That's WHY it was evil. They were able to torture and murder
> their victims because they did NOT care about them, at least not as much
> as they seemed to care about the church or Germany. But I guess that's
> obvious to most folks.
>
> PLATT
> I don't see where Pirsig gives caring any more importance than other
> values
> that maintain the social order. In the MoQ, the intellect is morally above
>
> social quality. (Pirsig would approve the choosing of Albert Einstein as
> Person of the Century over Mother Theresa.)
>
> DMB says
> Seems to me that they both care. Its just that they care about different
> things. Mother Theresa sees herself as doing God's work and Einstein saw
> himself as investigating the mind of God, so to speak. And yes,
> intellectual level values are more evolved and are therefore more moral,
> but we dismiss the lower level in favor of a higher level ONLY IN CASES
> WHERE THERE IS A CONFLICT.
> In this case, there is no conflict. There's no reason to think that the
> values of a scientist would contradict Theresa's mission to feed the
> hungry. Both levels are composed of static Quality and are good for
> different reasons.
>
> PLATT
> Compassion, sensitivity, loving-kindness -- these are not words in the
> vocabulary of the MoQ. It seems to me that if they were vital in the big
> MoQ
> scheme of things, Pirsig would have used them a lot more often.
>
> DMB says...
> Intelligence, clarity, honesty and subtlety of mind, -- these are not
> words in the vocabulary of the MOQ. But they're necessary. It seems to me
> that they ARE vital to discussing the MOQ's scheme of things, yet Pirsig
> barely mentions them because some things go without saying. Yes, we should
> be on gaurd against elevating mere sentiment to something more than it is,
> but show me a good reason why the MOQ would be against compassion,
> sensitivity or loving-kindness. As I understand it, these things
> contradict nothing in the MOQ.
>
> DMB says
> Platt, I really don't wish to start any nastiness, but you should listen
> to yourself. You went out of your way to make an argument against caring,
> compassion and loving-kindness? What's up with that? You sound like
> Satan's lawyer. And I don't mean that in a good way.
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