Jarod and Miss Parker (simba@eznet.net)
Sat, 4 Oct 1997 19:02:28 +0100
Platt spaketh: (with interjections by Yours Truly)
<<snip snip>>
> > > It (DQ) is prior to intellectual division
> > > and thus cannot be defined in words or formulas except to say it
cannot
> > be
> > > defined. It eludes rational analysis just as the experience of
> listening
> > to
> > > Mozart's 40th symphony eludes intellectual talk about keys,
tonalities,
> > > chord progressions, etc. (Music does not emerge from intellectual
> > patterns.
> > > It emerges from the composers intuition of DQ. Intellect tries to
horn
> in
> > > and dominate music and the arts just as it tries to dominate
society.)
> >
> > I would think it better to say that a composer's intellectual patterns
> make
> > it possible for him or her to formulate an expression of DQ in the way
> that
> > they choose. If music does not emerge from intellectual patterns, then
in
> > exactly what way does it relate to those patterns? A symphony's chord
> > progressions are not the symphony itself, but that is not to say that
the
> > symphony's essence is not in some way dependent upon them.
> >
> Good point. Perhaps this is similar to the question of how does math
relate
> to natural phenomenon? Do we impose mathematical patterns on the world or
> are the patterns built in like Plato's ideals, awaiting discovery? Is
the
> essence of light dependent in some way on quantum mathematics? I vote no.
> But there are many far wiser than me who say yes.
I suspect that the answer lies "in Between", as it always seems to do. The
mathematical patterns that underlie music, light, gravity, etc. are there.
We cannot deny the existence of those mathematical patterns, and it
seems to me that in some way these things are dependent upon them.
But the essences thereof are surely not strictly part and parcel of those
mathematical patterns.
I cannot perceive "red" in the absence of light of a certain wavelength
striking my photoreceptors, but you are certainly right in saying that the
fact of that causal relationship does not mean that the relationship
itself is the essence. Perhaps DQ cannot emerge without a foundation
based on SQ. Your thoughts?
<<snip snip>>
> > It seems to me that by enumerating acts through which one can
> > apprehend DQ is, at least in one key way, a descriptive act.
> >
> Well, I can describe how to get an experience, but not the experience
> itself. For example, I can't describe the smell of a rose, the taste of
> chocolate or how to ride a bicycle. Can you describe Quality? >
Not in so many words, but I take the act of "pointing to it" to be
at least partially descriptive. The point is that one cannot "describe"
Quality except through the act of pointing to it as we are doing. I
think that we agree on this point, and I have stated things poorly.
(What a surprise there!!)
Off topic: Is Pirsig writing any new books? I surely hope that he is.
Not just to get more of his thoughts on Quality, but he is also a
plain old Damned Fine Writer!
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