Hettinger (hettingr@iglou.com)
Wed, 8 Oct 1997 03:48:15 +0100
Doug Renselle wrote:
> Maggie,
>
> You said:
>
> >
> > However if you think that defining the taste of chocolate is a
> > worthwhile
> > intellectual pursuit then go ahead, and good luck.
> >
>
Actually, I didn't. I believe it might have been Magnus who said this.
And I haven't really followed the chocolate thread all the way.
> Now, I accept it as fundamental that there is a set neural patterns in
> the brain and its neural extensions which recognize the taste of
> chocolate accurately and repeatedly. Does that say the taste of
> chocolate is only experienced?
>
When you say "experienced", do you mean biologically experienced? Yes,
I'd say that biological patterns of value are involved here, when that
inborn need for energy (fat and sugar) is satisfied. And the inorganic
patterns of value, whatever chemicals are involved to facilitate that
"recognition" you mentioned, have been set up to do this. The inorganic
patterns were mediated by the biological patterns.
Actually, off the top of my head, I think it's more of a social thing.
Some kinds of fat and sugar are valued in our culture and others are not.
This taste for "chocolate" would seem to be a social value. No one thinks
about whether chocolate is value. If a piece is near my fingers, the
fingers will pick it up and pop it in the mouth. (I'm going to totally
ignore my sometimes successful attempts at self-mediation, choosing to set
up static intellectual patterns to counter this social urge. I don't
think I could explain that.)
The biological value of energy and the biological and social value of
people who grow cocoa and the social value of people who share food with
each other have all been mediated by intellectual patterns of hospitality,
marketing, whatever to produce a system that produces that piece of
chocolate from whatever inorganic patterns it is composed of.
And in some way, there is another intellectual influence here, too
(although I don't have a clue what it is) because full-page, glossy ads
for expensive chocolates have been showing up in comparatively
intellectual magazines.
Well, you did ask. ;-)
> Does a neural pattern which accomplishes this feat 'define' what it
> recognizes? Is this SPoV a definition? Aren't SPoVs definitions?
>
I would say that definitions are social patterns of value (language) that
store, maintain intellectual patterns. The language definition is somehow
a match for the intellectual concept.
That neural pattern is an inorganic pattern of value that ____?
This is the interface here. The interface between the levels. In some
way, that neural pattern is the arbiter, the judge of the whole shebang.
If the pattern matches at this point, the system is maintained. If
anything shifts, kablooey.
I don't mean to be flip about this, but you ask good questions. If you
hadn't asked me by accident, I would still be sitting on the outside
wondering what everyone was talking about.
Maggie
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