Bodvar Skutvik (skutvik@online.no)
Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:25:02 +0100
Horse & Squad.
I think we have strayed a little from the current topic and I want to
redirect our attention to this your forceful opening of 14 June which
ended thus:
> Pisig states that reality is really very easy to understand - a small
> child can understand it. The model that we are building must also be
> easy to understand. There is no mystical or mysterious nature to
> Quality.
This last passage contains it all, but to comment a little on your
earlier considerations: Your two models seem to be an exact
description of the alternatives that have materialized, but are they
really mutually exclusive? I have possibly adhered to the first in
the sense that once a new static level have come into existence it is
not dynamic any longer and also different from its parent level, but
I can accept the second model as well; there is a dynamic element
behind all stability. And I cannot see that it requires an
interaction "mechanism" as it does in SOM where - for example - an
impulse to act supposedly is born in the subjective mind before it is
executed in the objective matter realm.
You ask: How does Dynamic Q interact with the levels in order that
there is some form of change/evolution within any particular level? I
think there is a slight misunderstanding of what "change within"
means. To start with matter. Once the IPoV was established (through
Big Bang or otherwise) no change to these value patterns has taken
place. The exotic particles that live for nanoseconds (when enough
energy is invested) aren't new, but as much IPoV as the good old
proton (or its constituents).
When change to matter came about it resulted in a totally new value
level -Biology. And here the same applies. If a strange life form
will be found to have evolved on a far away planet, it is BiPoV as
good as any one found on earth. Change to static Biological patterns
ended up as Social value.
The Brujo of LILA did not bring about new SoPoV value. All he did was
introduce new ways for his tribe to orientate itself relative to the
new power in the region: the US government. "Evolution" within the
Social value realm became the Intellectual value level, and to apply
the same logic here: Ideas seem to have alternated between the
subject-object limitations ever since that value level was
established. A truly new idea will result in a transgression of InPoV
(is that what the MOQ is?)
Finally, my proposal for a DQ/SQ split (minimalistic) definition is
CHANGE versus PERMANENCE.
Bo
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