Roger:
I'm afraid you've totally misread my meaning.
And you managed to avoid any interpretation of the original quote, nor did
you even try to show how it supports your view. I begged you to explain
that, but again you've managed to evade it entirely.
If I'd meant to say there are four "objective" worlds, I would have said
that. As Peter L said so well, there is a difference between expressing SOM
ideas and simply using the SOM language and conceptual lexicon that we all
share. I think you know the difference. You totally hacked up my post in
trying to construe my picture of an evolving multi-layered reality as some
kind of objectivity. (While I left yours entirely in tact.) It struck me as
a dishonest and willful distortion.
But the biggest blunder was your understanding of my questions, which you
praise as "great" and "tough" and then pose to the whole group. You've got
to be kidding! The questions (see below) were strictly rhetorical. It wasn't
an attempt to elicit any reply at all. I was making an assertion about the
irrationality of your view. I was trying to make to the logical
contradiction obvious to you.
Further, you complained that these same questions were off on a tangent, but
they were actually aimed at the most central and crucial point in your
argument. (That direct experience is the ultimate yardstick.) I was trying
to say that static patterns of intellectual quality CAN NOT be judged by
pre-intellectual experience - precisley because it is PRE-intellectual. To
think otherwise is not paradoxical or deep, its just irrational and
illogical.
Here's another RHETORICAL question for you; If you can so badly
misunderstand me, a person who is speaking to you PERSONALLY and who is
discusssing the points that YOU made, how can I trust you to understand
anything at all?
You, Sir, are philosophically irresponsible and intellectually dishonest!
We ageeed to duel, picked our weapons, walked ten paces, and when I turned
to fire all I saw was your yellow tail running for the hills of gooey
mysticism and evasive non-sense. Ya hear me, Roger? I calling you yeller!
Meet me in front of the saloon at sunrise or I'm coming to get ya.
(Obviuosly, I'm kidding.)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RISKYBIZ9@aol.com [SMTP:RISKYBIZ9@aol.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2000 1:43 PM
> To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> Subject: Re: MD truth
>
>
>
>
> DAVID:
>
> When you say "direct experience", It seems
> like you're talking about something to which [no] one else could ever have
> access. The ultimate test of truth is direct experience? Do you mean just
> your direct experience or do you mean everybody's? How would we get
> everybody's direct experience together? Maybe through language and ideas -
> which are static patterns of social and intellectual quality? Oh, but then
> it wouldn't be direct experience, would it?
>
> ROGER:
>
> Great questions. This is where metaphysics gets real tough. It becomes
> impossible to sort the nature of reality from the nature of knowledge.
> Again,
> these could be great questions for new threads, but my flip answer is that
> in
> a mystic monism such as the MOQ, the solution is that ultimately there is
> no
> distinction.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Roger
>
> PS -- David really has asked some good questions here. I tossed out some
> quick answers to avoid getting sidetracked, but would sure appreciate
> anybody
> else taking a crack at them. I editorialize them as:
> 1) How does pre-intellectual experience ultimately evalute intellectual
> concepts?
> 2) If Quality is direct experience, how do we separate the nature of
> reality
> from the nature of knowledge?
>
>
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> MD Queries - horse@wasted.demon.nl
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@wasted.demon.nl
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:00:38 BST