Peter and y'all:
I've only a few minutes, but liked your Monday post and want to squeeze in a
few thoughts.
I think you're on to something with random-ness and scale. As I understand
it, Pirsig is saying that the entire universe in nothing but DQ and static
patterns. And I think this means there is no such thing as disorder, not
really. Even the energetic and kenetic movement of gas molecules in a closed
chamber are patterned because the molecules themselves ARE patterns of
static quality. Nothing in creation is without a pattern. You've just got to
look at the proper scale to recognize it.
But that oxymoronic topic isn't as interesting as the other point you
raised...
PETER SAID...
"I have to defend the notion that many of the patterns that humans are
interested in are in fact subjective-based, ...yet maintain that "reality"
is not entirely the product of subjectivity. I can do this by resort to the
notion that there exists 'something' objective, without having to claim to
be able to define it."
DMB
Well, sure. Not only are humans interested in their point of view, but I was
trying desperately to get across the idea the Pirsig doesn't reject
"subjectiveity", but actually expands it to the lowest levels of creation.
Subjectivity is a feature of every static pattern. Even sub-atomic particles
make choices in the MOQ, no?
And just for the record, Solipsism doesn't just recognize our "interest" in
the subjective, it says that the world is CREATED by subjectivity, by "mind"
in the classical sense of the word.
Not to pick nits, but I really don't think an undefined "something" can
rightly be called "objective". But I know what you mean, DQ itself is
forever a mystery, yet its really real.
PETER CONTINUED WITH...
"That something may well be "Quality" in Pirsig's book, or "information" in
my book, or indeed "God" in someone else's book; it doesn't really matter.
As long as one has the fundamental notion that 'something' outside the
'known' universe, then one's cosmology can stand up."
DMB
Right on. DQ and God are metaphors for a mystery. Its really real, but
beyond definition. This mystical reality is the source of all creation, our
ground of being and the engine behind evolution. We can say lots of things
about it, but ultimately its a mystery, the ulitimate unknown. We can't put
our hands on it or wrap our minds around it.
And yet it is what we ARE, and we know it intimately... The 'known' universe
is patterned quality, static quality, and that's the other half of Pirsig's
cosmology, right?
The MOQ is a monism, there is only one thing; Quality. But there is two
distinctly differernt kinds of quality. SQ is the Sun and moon and stars and
all the galaxies and all of time space and dimension. SQ is all the planets
and comets and black holes that ever were or will be. SQ is the all life on
earth, every civilization, every race and every war and every broken heart
that ever has or will lose a lover. SQ is every rock and tree, every idea or
instinct that ever was. SQ is everything we could ever know or imagine. DQ
is none of this, but it is the source and mother of all of it. QUALITY IS
IMMANENT in all "known" reality. I think that's what Pirsig is saying when
he says even a chair is composed of a little moral order, a chair has its
own dharma, its own being.
Static Quality emerged out of the undifferentiated continuum and evolves
into as many different forms of quality, as many different patterns of
existence as possible. Qualtiy wants to know what its like to be the sun and
the moon and the stars..... Quality wants to be all that it can be, so it is
everything simultaneously. Quality wants to know what its like from every
perspective, and it does, cause there's only one thing. It just has lots of
features, which is sort of the point of evolution. The difference between
static patterns and DQ is like the difference between gold and God.
Naturally, I'm not being philosophically accurate or scientifically correct,
its just a metaphorical description of the big picture.
Thanks.
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