This is my first real addition to anything, so please bare with me. On the
question of intelligence and quality, I am reminded of a quotation by Albert
Einstein that I found rather interesting and sutible for the the subject
matter. I am just paraphrasing so please bare with me. "Intelligence is
not to be worshiped...iT is more of a tool that had been given to us to
discover things in the world." I think that this relates to the MOQ because
what Einstein is saying is similar to what Pirsig is saying. Intelligence
is not the ultimate quality, but can be used to find things in the world,
thus enhancing the quality that we fell and are aware of. To use the finger
and the moon analogy, I would say that the moon is the ultimate quality, but
perhaps the moon could not have been pointed out if it were not for the
finger.
that's my view though, and I am new to this
>From: "hugh.greenaway" <hugh.greenaway@diamond.co.uk>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>Subject: Re: MD Brilliance and the ramblings of a madman
>Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 21:36:40 +0100
>
>Thanks David, this group is a breath of fresh air, or should that be, a
>whiff of DQ.
>Regards the "flip side", one zen master replied that "if you dont ask you
>get thirty blows, and if you do ask you get thirty blows".
>Pirsig's reason for writing it, if i may paraphrase another zen master," in
>order to stop a child's crying." Pirsig knows full well that the intellect
>will get "stuck" on quality, which is his main aim.Forget about the quality
>of his finger! look at the moon !
>maybe thats the joke you refer too ?lol
>im not so sure that some cows would agree that humans are a more dynamic
>form of life ! this is the human discriminating mind at work again.
>can a car made by robots have quality ?
>I note that there are a lot of new (like myself) members who might be a
>little apprehensive about commenting.My advice would be to and make your
>comments as its the only way to understanding (sic)
>the purpose of this group, as you kindly point out, is to evolve this
>intellect.the only thing you have to fear, is fear itself.i studied the
>groups essays etc before commenting and feel that this is the place to
>agree
>to disagree, which evolves the whole ethos of the group.
>but then again, I could be wrong !
>thanks again for your very helpful comments.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: David Sater <dsater@emergingmind.com>
>To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>Sent: 04 June 2000 9:11:pm
>Subject: RE: MD Brilliance and the ramblings of a madman
>
>
>Hugh,
>
>It HAS occurred to me (and many others on this list) and I believe it IS a
>koan! I totally agree with you.
>
>Pirsig writes:
>
>"To the intellect, the process of defining Quality has a compulsive quality
>of its own. It produces a certain excitement- even though it leaves a
>hangover afterward... Writing a metaphysics is, in the strictest mystic
>sense, a degenerate activity." (Lila; Ch. 5, page 74)
>
>And, of course, we can add the Zen wisdom: "The finger pointing at the moon
>is not the moon."
>
>Yes, the intellect, in it's current form, is the obstacle.
>
>However, the flip side is: Why ever point at anything at all then? Why did
>Pirsig write the koan in the first place? He didn't help Quality one bit by
>adding yet another voice in the cacophony of human existence.
>
>The answer is stated in ZAMM (I can't find the quote so I'll paraphrase):
>
>Pheadrus wasn't trying to help Quality. Quality is fine. What Pheadrus
>hoped
>to accomplish was to expand rationality itself so that it could embrace new
>concepts which it currently couldn't even acknowledge because of it's
>metaphysical roots.
>
>The reason I'm involved with the moq.org is that we have a group of people
>here who understand this and realize that intellectual ideas can and do
>evolve. All that is required is that we seek new ideas that are more
>inclusive by being more Dynamic- like a philosophical algebra. I believe
>this "algebra" is what Pirsig is trying to create when he talks about
>whether eating meat is a moral activity.
>
>He basically says that it depends on whether humans (a more dynamic form of
>life than cows) are starving. If there is enough non-meat food, let the
>cows
>live so that they may continue to pursue Quality on their terms also.
>
>I'm not sure if I totally agree with him (what about the Greenhouse
>Effect/Methane issue), but I do see what he's pointing at and I think his
>finger has higher Quality. I think there's a joke in here somewhere. ;)
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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