Thanks David, this group is a breath of fresh air, or should that be, a
whiff of DQ.
Regards the "flip side", one zen master replied that "if you dont ask you
get thirty blows, and if you do ask you get thirty blows".
Pirsig's reason for writing it, if i may paraphrase another zen master," in
order to stop a child's crying." Pirsig knows full well that the intellect
will get "stuck" on quality, which is his main aim.Forget about the quality
of his finger! look at the moon !
maybe thats the joke you refer too ?lol
im not so sure that some cows would agree that humans are a more dynamic
form of life ! this is the human discriminating mind at work again.
can a car made by robots have quality ?
I note that there are a lot of new (like myself) members who might be a
little apprehensive about commenting.My advice would be to and make your
comments as its the only way to understanding (sic)
the purpose of this group, as you kindly point out, is to evolve this
intellect.the only thing you have to fear, is fear itself.i studied the
groups essays etc before commenting and feel that this is the place to agree
to disagree, which evolves the whole ethos of the group.
but then again, I could be wrong !
thanks again for your very helpful comments.
----- Original Message -----
From: David Sater <dsater@emergingmind.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: 04 June 2000 9:11:pm
Subject: RE: MD Brilliance and the ramblings of a madman
Hugh,
It HAS occurred to me (and many others on this list) and I believe it IS a
koan! I totally agree with you.
Pirsig writes:
"To the intellect, the process of defining Quality has a compulsive quality
of its own. It produces a certain excitement- even though it leaves a
hangover afterward... Writing a metaphysics is, in the strictest mystic
sense, a degenerate activity." (Lila; Ch. 5, page 74)
And, of course, we can add the Zen wisdom: "The finger pointing at the moon
is not the moon."
Yes, the intellect, in it's current form, is the obstacle.
However, the flip side is: Why ever point at anything at all then? Why did
Pirsig write the koan in the first place? He didn't help Quality one bit by
adding yet another voice in the cacophony of human existence.
The answer is stated in ZAMM (I can't find the quote so I'll paraphrase):
Pheadrus wasn't trying to help Quality. Quality is fine. What Pheadrus hoped
to accomplish was to expand rationality itself so that it could embrace new
concepts which it currently couldn't even acknowledge because of it's
metaphysical roots.
The reason I'm involved with the moq.org is that we have a group of people
here who understand this and realize that intellectual ideas can and do
evolve. All that is required is that we seek new ideas that are more
inclusive by being more Dynamic- like a philosophical algebra. I believe
this "algebra" is what Pirsig is trying to create when he talks about
whether eating meat is a moral activity.
He basically says that it depends on whether humans (a more dynamic form of
life than cows) are starving. If there is enough non-meat food, let the cows
live so that they may continue to pursue Quality on their terms also.
I'm not sure if I totally agree with him (what about the Greenhouse
Effect/Methane issue), but I do see what he's pointing at and I think his
finger has higher Quality. I think there's a joke in here somewhere. ;)
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