Sandra,
Your reply is intriguing. You have definitely successfully subscribed to a
mailing list. I guess I have to say first that it is Robert Pirsig's
philosophy that is discussed here. Who is, or where did you get the name,
'Pynchon'? Anyways, don't lose surety in yourself. Mine is one stinky
opinion among billions, as is yours, and of course also my friend across the
pond, Struan's.
Now, your comments did spur me to reply for a couple of reasons. The first
is just curiosity about Mr. or Mrs. Pynchon.
The second is the appearance of 'challenging' someone to an intellectual
'contest'. Really, I think if done seriously and with a real intent to
'beat' the other 'team', it is quite arrogant and immature, as the tone of
my letter may well have suggested to some.
Read any of Mr.Hellier's past posts, and you may judge for yourself whether
the insults I played out are justifiable. I don't think that bringing in
personal jibes in conversation, whether casual or philosophical, is good in
almost all actual cases. However, in this one I reasoned to myself in this
manner:
- I have been desiring for some time to stirring myself and others up to the
task of
completely and clearly explaining the MOQ, as we understand it to
be taught by Pirsig in ZAMM and Lila, and then posting the results
in essay form for everyone to learn from.
- So far, little luck. And understandably. You are right, Sandra, that
the MOQ - *in essence* - can be understood without prior knowledge of the
entire history of philosophy. The beauty of the principles of this
philosophy is that they CAN be understood by children, and in fact
ARE understood better by children than by stodgy old professors, as
pointed out in ZAMM.
- Struan, in my opinion, is lacking in the departments of romantic
vision and insight and intuition. He is a rather intelligent
fellow, however, in the classical sense - he can think and write
quite rationally when the desire so strikes him. And 'X' bless logic.
He therefore is potentially an excellent devil's advocate, if only he
would put down his criticisms in a coherent manner devoid of cheap
rhetoric, with reference and relevance to the texts we are discussing.
- In order to have someone to compare my own interpretation with, and
better yet someone with whom I disagree on fundamental points, I have
sent out that 'challenge' to a 'contest' to goad his ego into pushing his
mind to do
some very challenging work. That is, to fully explicate the meaning of
Pirsig's words. And to do that - in full (which I think is best at this time
for latching reasons) - requires some knowledge at the very least of: the
ancient Greeks, of early modern Western philosophy beginning with Descartes
and ending with Kant, Zen in particular and Buddhism in general, the Tao Te
Ching, Hinduism and the 'topic' of mysticism.
- So, seeing as I've tried kindly and politely and failed, I thought "if you
can't beat 'em, join 'em" and sent off the message.
anyways,
The whole idea is that these online discussions are flowing streams of
thought, and what would help are islands of stability on which to build new
ideas.
The whole idea of a 'contest', the more that I think about it, is rather
quite silly. I am hoping, Struan, that your pride will at least force you
into doing a general summary of Pirsig's ideas as you understand them, or in
lieu of that, a general summary of the reasons why you feel that the MOQ
sucks. Either way, I and everyone else interested in the further development
of his philosophy will benefit.
If not even one of those options strikes you as agreeable, then will you as
a personal favour tell me why on earth you spend so much time on a
philosophy so flawed?
I think what now ought to be sent out is a "Call for
Actually-Doing-Something", to those who wish to see the MOQ succeed in
gaining some academic recognition.
See ya later,
Rich
>From: wiesner@datacomm.ch
>Reply-To: wiesner@datacomm.ch
>To: "rich pretti" <richpretti@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: MD A Call to Accountability
>Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 18:37:57 MEST
>
>humm... there goes my self-confidence... I'm not even sure which adress to
>use
>to post to the whole list but my comment is probably personal anyway. (or
>not
>worthy of the list... besides your mail looks as if I could stirr quite a
>bit
>of trouble unintentionally because I don't know the background and I'm not
>sure
>if I want to know because it sounds like one of those stories about a
>narrow
>minded person) Where was I before I started disgressing? Ah yes.. would
>majordomo@moq.org
>be the right adress to post to the list?
>
>Just in case you haven't noticed until now: I'm new to the list, your post
>was
>the first one I got and it already broke my intention to just sit and read
>and
>maybe learn but not post.
>
> >To do that, I see three prerequisites:
>I do wholeheartedly agree on 2 + 3 but I dare to doubt that a "good
>understanting
>of the history of both Eastern and Western philosophy" is a necessary
>prerequisite.
>It may be nice and helpfull but I think a clear-headed and open-minded
>person
>can very well
>talk about and even criticise Pynchon's book(s) without having all this
>philosophical
>background (except for having read the two books).
>
><sits for quite some time starring at the computer... answering some phone
>calls,
>people ordering clothes... starts to think again>
>
>It has been said that children are the best philosophers and this view
>might
>just support my argument. Then again I myself spent most of my childhood
>and
>youth submerged in books (not all of them were very philosophical I admit)
>collecting
>worlds and information and dreams and am even currently trying to get more
>knowledge
>(I'm attending University) but somehow the notion that one would have to
>have
>philosophical background to deal with Pynchon struck deep with me.
>
>Just some thoughts, not very well formulated not very deep, coming from a
>bored
>young woman at work -making money to pay University rates-.
>
>Take care and good-luck in your contest
>
>Sandra
>
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