Hey Dan, this has been fun..... Thanks for bearing with me.
DAN:
I'm not sure if it is a fundamental inadequacy of language or if I
simply have yet to learn the proper way to express myself....
ROG:
I was just trying to get down to the essential issues. Sorry if I was
being.....anal....again.
DAN:
.... but yes, to
answer your last question first, we are unaware of the inorganic level
in everyday reality just as we are intellectually unaware of biological
level processes. Take a hypochondriac, for instance.
ROG:
I agree that some of biology is under the hood and that we are unaware of
it, but not all of it. Consider a stomach ache. Consider sex. Where did
this "truism" come from that a pattern of one level is ignorant of processes
more than one level away? Did Bo come up with this? I don't think I agree,
but as we know, I could be wrong. ;^)
DAN:
Your second question is a great deal more complex and I am unsure if
there is a proper answer the way it is worded. Hmmm. Let's see. Perhaps
if you change the "or" to "and"... shuffle the "are" over in front of
"reality"... drop the ? mark... then you have a statement "the levels
are reality and part of the map" which would seem closer to the mark,
though still not quite right...
ROG:
Personally I would say that "the levels are part of the map, but the map is
part of reality." But that's still not quite right either...
DAN:
As to your first question, perhaps it is better to say patterns of value
have evolutionary levels.
ROG:
OK
DAN:
This is one reason why I think it is
imperative not to look at memes as independent entities.
ROG:
I would agree that according to the MOQ and modern science there is no such
thing as a totally independent entity. " That which has no value....". I
would say that conceptually, memes overlap greatly with social and
intellectual patterns of value. Not exactly though....
DAN:
Universe seems to be a ever regenerating process in which copying is
prohibited, at least in the context of every day reality.
ROG:
Dang! Do not tell anybody else until I can unload my shares of Xerox!
DAN:
.... Roger, this isn't off the subject at
all. Not at all! What is it that keeps us all in place? It is the image
we have of who we are plus the image those around us have of us.
ROG:
OK, but isn't this conversation getting deeper than necessary? It's like
starting a conversatiion on who is the best goalie and answering...."God".
DAN:
Carlos
Castaneda called it the "tonal". There is no separation in the image
between self and not self except that which is imagined. The tonal is
everything that make us what we are; everything. All of static quality
reality. If one wishes to substitute the term meme for tonal I see no
problem at all.
ROG:
OK.
So, where are you on the concept of memes? Do you feel they add any value
to this forum?
Roger
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