David (etinarcardia) in response to David (Prince):
> There is just no limit to what the Quality concept can do for us.
I think there is. To start with, Quality isn't a concept. It is a
metaphysical reality OF which we might be able to have some concept, so long
as that concept isn't a picture or a synthetic judgement. This imposes
limits on what we can do with that concept, if it is trully to remain a
concept of metaphysical quality. In particular:
> David (etinarcardia):
> What do you mean by calling MOQ "evolutionary" metaphysics?
>
> David Prince:
> I believe what is meant by this is specifically that a meme is a type of
> referential feedback control loop. Huh? You know: a thing, any thing, that
> changes its behavior in response to its external environment in order to
> achieve a more positive outcome.
That is precisely why Quality can't be a Meme: it is not what changes in
response to it's external enviroment: we are. Think about it on this
dangerous analogy, if you like: Religion can be a Meme, because it's changes
are just changes in our behaviour. But God can't be a Meme and still be
God: if he's just what changes then he's just a collection of beleifs, and
not the metaphysical object these beleifs are supposed to be about. (one
argument against the existence of God). The same applies to Quality, as it
would to Plato's Form of the Good.
Now, in pursuit of quality, we are always changing our behaviour because the
enviroment is always changing, and different things have quality for
different purposes at different times. But this isn't to say that Quality
is always changing, quite the reverse. If qualtity wasn't always the same,
there could be no explanation for our constant technological inventiveness:
there would be no reason to keep changing our behaviour, and no direction to
motivate a change in response to the environment. You are heading for the
Presidency. The vote comes up with a 'stuck' result. So, you stop
campaigning and head for the courts. If you weren't trying to get to be
president this change of behaviour would be just random.
Or think about the captain of a ship. He's headed for Vancouver. A storm
blows up and it knocks him of course. He changes his heading. Are you
going to say that it was Vanvouver which changed? I'd be surprised to hear
it, but it seems to be what's implied by talk of quality as a meme.
> What is a Hegelian synthesis but an evolving Meme?)) or even a Router
(q-learning).
I haven't read Hegel (thank god ;-) ), but I'm sure that Quality can't be a
meme if that means being any kind of synthesis. 'Sythesis' just means
'product of our creative judgement', so a synthesis is, if you like, the
most basic form of Human technology: 'snow is white' - a neat bit of basic
intellectual technology that helps us to know what 'snow' means. Well now,
if Quality is a (hegelian?) synthesis, then that makes quality a product of
our technology..... Well: I thought Quality was what our technology was
aimed at, what we're always struggling for. So it seems that you are now
saying that technology is aimed at itself, and that's bunkum. Actually it's
not just wrong, it's unintelligable.
David
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