RISKY ROG TO JOVO (AND EVERYONE INTERESTED) ON INTERVALUEING SYSTEMS
Hi JoVo!
The reason I am so intrigued by your essay is that I have been exploring
similar ideas and have come to similar conclusions. My working term for the
concept has been "Positive Sum Quality." It uses concepts from physics
(self amplifying feedback) and game theory (win/win interactions) to better
explain where pattern and order come from within each level, and how each
level evolves to the next. Basically, I have found that the win/win
interactions of game theory (as originated by Von Neuman) and the physics
concept of a feedback loop are really two ways of stating the same idea.
And that idea, which again I am calling POSITIVE SUM QUALITY, overlaps
greatly with what you have been writing on elvaleaches, systems and positive
value equations. Of course it also overlaps completely with the MOQ.
Before going on, let me again warn you off of using "elvaleaches" as a term.
It translates into English into some type of parasite that sucks the blood
out of an elf. This is completely at odds with your intended definition.
"Intervalueing" works very well, as does "co-valueing", but it's your
term......
Below are some sketchy outlines of some of my work.....
QUESTION SET UP/BACKGROUND:
According to physic's second law of thermodynamics, in a closed system, such
as our universe, disorder will inevitably triumph over order and structure.
Entropy will be maximized. The reason for this is that the second law is a
statistical law. There are so many more possible states of disorder than
order, that any given closed system is virtually guaranteed to be disordered.
The second law predicts that in the absence of any forces creating order and
structure, the universe should be a disperse, featureless, disordered cloud
of inert gas.The obvious problem with the entropic model is that it does not
correlate at all to the universe of galaxies, stars, and planets that we
actually observe. Our universe is one of variety, complexity and structure
that goes well beyond the subatomic realm. Any metaphysical or scientific
theory needs to be able to explain this.
I believe that the MOQ explains this through the evolution of value or
Quality. However, I find the MOQ is sketchy in places on how the patterns of
each of the levels evolve. More importantly, Pirsig only briefly addresses
the details on HOW each level goes about evolving into a higher level. I
believe Positive Sum Quality (my term) and whatever term you want to use for
your concepts does address this issue. Pirsig has encouraged the Lila Squad
to flesh out the vast portions (98% per the author) of the MOQ that are not
yet known. Below is some brief outlines of my first attempt at the task,
along with some correlations that seem to exist between your work and mine.
QUESTION 1) INORGANIC: WHY IS THE UNIVERSE ORDERED RATHER THAN DISORDERED?
BROAD ANSWER --Quality/value
SPECIFIC ANSWER -- There are four "forces" and myriads of "particles" within
quantum theory; however, quantum reality -- like the MOQ -- is ultimately
constructed of verbs and values rather than nouns or things. Reality is
dynamic interaction, and the amazing breakthrough of modern physics is that
it is not things that interact as much as it is interactions which define
things. In the words of Werner Heisenberg, one of the founders of the theory,
"The world thus appears as a complicated tissue of events in which
connections of different kinds alternate or combine and thereby determine the
texture of the whole." This is reminiscent of Pirsig's quote: by "A thing
that has no value does not exist. The thing has not created the value. The
value has created the thing."
The fundamental building blocks of reality are not things, they are events --
Quality events. These events can be described as interactions, and what we
think of as things --such as particles or forces -- are essentially stable
patterns of interaction. In your terms, they seem to be "elvaleaches" or
"intervaluations." would you agree JoVo?
But, I still haven't addressed the question. The reason that the universe is
ordered is that one particularly weak force has a special quality or
characteristic. This force, which we call gravity, is universally
attractive, infinite in range and its strength is inversely proportionate to
distance. In other words, every "particle" in the universe attracts every
other particle, and the closer they get the stronger the attraction. This
establishes a positive, self amplifying feedback
loop, or in your words, an intervalueing system. Gravity is the poster child
for what I call a Positive Sum Quality process. Although infinitessimally
small compared to the most powerful force of nature, electromagnetism,
gravity is able to allow pattern and structure to overcome the entropy
inherent in the larger force.
How? Electromagnetism, though 10 to the 43rd power stronger than gravity,
has two values -- positive and negative. as such, it cancels itself out.
Gravity is universally attractive and due to its tendency to attract and its
ability to gain strength with closeness, it is self amplifying. The
universe, though overwhelmingly entropic, is ordered and structured and
complex via the positive sum intervaluation of weak little gravity.
Gravitational "intervaluation" SYSTEMS include stars, planets, solar systems,
black holes, galaxies, galactic clusters, and even the entire universe.
Would you agree, JoVo?
[Sorry in advance for using such S/O terminology. Unfortunately, for clarity
our language almost requires it. For the record though, the stream or
'tissue' of Quality events is DQ, and gravity is just one of many simplified,
degenerative abstractions of DQ]
Q2) BIOLOGICAL: WHY DOES LIFE EVOLVE FROM NON-LIFE?
BROAD ANSWER -- Quality/value
SPECIFIC ANSWER -- A living system is formed out of advanced chemical
feedback loops, where the elements make each other (simple chemical feedback
loops are actually fairly commonplace). The function of each component of a
living system such as a cell is to participate in the production or
transformation of other components in the network. In this way the entire
network makes itself. It is therefore a win/win, Positive Sum relationship
for the chemicals involved and for the larger pattern. The system is self
creating and self maintaining.
In your words, JoVo, would such living systems be "intervalueing?" Seems
like it to me.
In the words of Chilean neuroscientist/biologist/cyberneticist Humberto
Maturana " Living systems...[are] organized in a closed causal circular
process that allows for evolutionary change in the way circularity is
maintained, but not in the loss of the circularity itself."
In a predominantly entropic world, living systems are preserved and evolve in
complexity and Dynamic versatility as the world around them decays into the
minimal organization provided by local gravity. Of course, living systems
must continually extract order from their surroundings by allowing energy and
material to pass through their system. One of the best sources for order is
....SURPRISE!!!! other living systems. As such, some living systems
dynamically evolved the ability to consume others, and others developed the
ability to defend against being consumed. An anti-entropic arms race ensued,
where living systems dynamically gained versatile new forms of consumption
and defense...cellular walls, propulsion, cellular wall penetration
mechanisms.......you get the point.
One particularly successful strategy for a living cell was to combine forces
with other cells into an "intervalueing" relationship. A multi-cellular life
system continues the intervalueing process up to the next level. Cells
combine together and cooperate into another win/win situation. Additional
complexity, division of
resources and specialization can all come out of this relationship. In
addition, one hi-Quality strategy to defend against these cooperative
coalitions of cells is to also form a competing coalition of cells
(obviously, evolutionary strategies are statistical in nature, not
conscious). Another evolutionary arms race of complexity occurs, this time
toward higher Quality forms of cooperation and versatility. DQ in action
again! This time leading to skin, organs, legs, wings, eyes, brains, etc,
etc.
JoVo, is this another example that meets your intervalueing system
requirements?
Note that the driver toward chemical and cellular intervaluation is entropy
and death. The negative face of quality is what leads to those in
self-supporting loops to survive and flourish as others dissappear. Again,
this is fully in agreement with Pirsig's writings, though again my
terminology in many places is conventional rather than MOQish..
Q3) SOCIAL: WHY DOES SOCIAL COOPERATION, ORDER AND COMPLEXITY EVOLVE FROM
SELFISH INDIVIDUAL BIOLOGICAL QUALITY?
BROAD ANSWER -- Quality/value
SPECIFIC ANSWER -- I have run out of time. Let me know your thoughts and
responses on the above JoVo (and everybody else) and if anyone is interested,
I will continue.
Risky Rog
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