(MRS) ELEPHANT TO PETER AND CHRIS ON GUEY STUFF:
PETER WROTE:
> I think what chris is getting at is that the study of the gooey stuff is
> pertinent to the study of meatphysics (oops, I love those typos: I meant
> "metaphysics"!) precisely because the two are reciprocal; the "all that we
> know" is exactly the all that we can know (so far), given what we know it
> with (: the gooey stuff). So, as with all objects, processes and
> relationships, metaphysics doesn't exist in a vacuum (well, get away!), and
> its useful to consider it from a variety of perspectives.
> Is that right, Chris?
ELEPHANT:
Yes, I think that is what he is getting at. I just think he's dead wrong.
Metaphysics and physics are not reciprocal, and no amount of observing
apples is going to teach Newton the MOQ. If Newton would just sit quietly,
however, and let the concept 'apple' return to the intellectual kit-bag it
fell out of, a force stronger than gravity would prevail on him.
(And, er, no, I'm not one of those who thinks that the way you proove how
much stronger enlightenment is than gravity, is to float around the
chandelier cross - legged....... these people are victims of some
catastrophic category mistake, or simply taking the ****.)
PETER WROTE:
> I sense Zeno approaching from left-field.
ELEPHANT:
He'd be far more likely to float gently (torridly?) down the river Ouse,
roads and trains being quite beyond repair, and all the racetracks being
under water (this is a private misery for us UK contributors. American
gloating will not be tolerated).
PETER WROTE:
> Surely "flux" is a way of saying "indivisible" (or at least, indivisible
> according to resort intrinsic 'properties')? and yes, to an extent, that's
> what I mean - I do tend to think of the MOQ as an inquiry into this
> question. (but not only).
ELEPHANT:
Yes! The way to make the point in terms of the lingo that's currently doing
the rounds amoughst the few academic philosophers who still bother to think
about Time is this: "flux" is a way of saying "continuous", which is
contrasted with "discrete". Are time, space, and motion (a construct of
time and space) continuous or discrete: that is the question which Zeno's
paradoxes address, and it has a direct bearing on Prisig's and Jame's
discussion of "flux". If time and space are discrete (made up of lots of
little jumps), Zeno appears to argue, then the arrow is stopped while it is
moving, and Achilles can never catch up with the tortoise. More on this if
anyone appears to be remotely interested. Entertaining Diversions into
amateur Quantum theory gladly arranged.
PETER:
> I'd not come across Dewey's statement to the
> effect that taste is the only thing..etc., - but this seems similar to the
> position that I took in an argument with Struan, to the effect that we
> actually only have (in some kind of concrete sense) "subjective" viewpoints,
> and so-called "objective reality" is a useful fiction....is it similar?
ELEPHANT:
Not really. The trouble is with the words 'fiction' and 'subjective'.
First, 'fiction' suggests a possible contrast with 'real life' which,
and this is the whole point, is not in fact available if we use 'fiction' as
you recommend. What you are calling a "useful fuction" is really the whole
of reality. In part, words mean what they mean because of the contrasts
they invoke. In this case, because the contrast is unavailable here, it is
meaningless to call objective reality a "fiction" when we are saying 'taste
is the only thing.....' etc: If this is a fiction, there is no such thing
as real life. But there is such a thing as real life, therefore this is not
a fiction.
Secondly, 'subjectivity' is what you get when you posit a
mind-independant reality which we then all have different mind-dependant
(subjective) understandings of. That's not what Dewey or MOQ are about at
all. The MOQ world is not mind-dependant, it *is* the mind (a new
conception of mind and world). Leastways, IMO......
Sending my regards up the A1 to all Yorkshire Folk,
Pzeph
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