AreteLaugh,
You wrote:
>Libertarianism might be summed as 1) Property and personal ownership, 2)
>Free interaction between consenting individuals and 3) A State that is
>limited to assisting it's citizens assert these rights in the face of
>aggression. I would assume an Anarchist would not believe in any of these.
>I can not say that i've met many self-identified practicing Anarchists.
I think that anachism would agree very much with 2) and 3), but probably have problems with 1). I'm not sure if I see where MoQ are making you prefer 1), as I see only as a biological value set. Anarchism is giving you unlimited freedom, with a society (family or "large family") as a foundation and owner of properties. As far as I see you should be better of with anarchism, that will even lift your 1) to a social level.
You also wrote:
>I have only personally witnessed modern California and East Germany (DDR).
>The DDR I think I understood but some of the woolly thinking coming out of
>the Left in California. I can't understand why despite the complete defeat
>of Socialist theories of economic the Left persists in it's drive toward a
>totalitarian state. Economic control is effectively total control.
I didn't know that California was a Socialist state, and I have never been there. I have been to DDR, Hungary and Jugoslavia many years ago (around 1985), and I was suprised by the enornous creativity in arts and technology. They where IMO in some cases improvising a little much, but they had a society that alowed what I would call a dynaic evaluation in many intelectual levels.
I agree that many of these old comunist states must have been horrible to live in, but I would not necessarily agree to blame it on the socialism. Anyway, here in Norway we are "invaded" by Russian and Polish people in the summer, highly educated or good artists, taking all kind of work in order to earn some money for their families to live for. According to newspapers here in Norway, a university proffesor can make more money picking strawberries two months in Norway than they make the rest of the year in Poland (I didn't even pick strawberries when I was a student, as it was so bad payed). I am rather certain that these highly educated persons and these artists are only partly pleased with their new freedom. The few people that have become very rich in Russia and Poland these years, are in my opinion not at all contributing with dynamic values at any levels, and seems to be only interested in a biological "show-off" to prove their wealth.
I honestly need to understand how you can believe in all this freedom, when you see how bad it gets when the society value level is to loose (or more or less non-existing). And that is my reason for fining Libertarianism not to agree with MoQ (I also do not belive anarchism is a good thing).
Most of these things have been covered in previous discussions: Marco have said these things in much better way - and I advise you to read his posts. It seems to be difficult to agree on these question based on MoQ.
Gerhard
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:01:22 BST