Hugo,
I'm a newcomer to the list as well. No responses yet. Perhaps I'm off topic
or something. But I found your comments on topic, particularly the one
about hanging out with dogs and kids. What have dogs and kids forgotten
that adults can't forget? What is it that adults have learned that dogs and
cats have not? Would Pirsig call the difference SQ or DQ?
Buried my last dog last year, so now my wife and I have only our cats now.
I am not disagreeing with your comment, but I have found that there are
perhaps fewer "rules of engagement" for hanging out with cats than with
humans, but the "protocol" is just as critical. Cats just will not put up
with as much crap as will dogs. But they are much more "advanced" that most
people I know when it comes to forgiving and forgetting. That is quality in
my opinion.
Perhaps some would call it unconditional love. Sounds good, but it's hard
for me to believe in unconditional anything, since life has, for me so far,
been filled with conditions that led to choices which have make a
tremendous difference--a "quality" difference in my opinion.
Hope I not off topic or something, but you said you needed a response. Me,
too...
Billy Dean
Info@billydee.com
http://www.billydee.com
"It is the journey that enlightens--not the destination..."
Kwai Chang Caine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hugo Jernmark" <hugojernmark@hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:48 AM
Subject: MD some reflections
> Hello, this is the first time i write here, im a new member and im just
> gonna put down some thougts that has occured since I read ZAMM and Lila.
Why
> did Pirsig start with all this from the beginning? What drove him from
the
> absolute first start to start this big examination of everything? What is
it
> that makes some people really dig in to things and some people just
follows
> the allready-made track? He describes Phaedrus as really manic and
obsessed
> in solving this giant puzzle, and it really seems like an obsession.
There's
> genetic proof that some people need kicks more than others, but some
people
> shoot heroin and some people climb mountains, and discovering all this is
> obviously a big fat kick for Pirsig. Is it a holy goal in purpose to make
> the world better? It seems like some sort of external gift in many ways,
> like he was choosen or something. He talks about "contrarians" and what
> makes one? It has been said often that when a human experience a trauma
or
> some powerful experience she starts to think and reflect more active,
theres
> a lot of people who can say exactly in which minute they felt they were
no
> longer children, and this is actually when they started to reflect in a
way
> when the world no longer just centered around the "self". Some people
seems
> to stop and stagnating in a biological pattern, and i believe its
generally
> society-class related. The people i grew up with was typical working
class
> and they talked in a biological pattern way, now they seem primitive when
i
> bump into them cause they've seemed to got stuck somewhere, and then
there's
> people who are coming from a very basic, non-sophisticated culture, and
have
> no chances to make it it seems, but then they just keeps evolving and you
> get all astonished and impressed how far they go in theirs minds. To make
a
> summary: why do some people become contrarians and others dont? And why
> creates some contrarians so much of their experiences like Pirsig, and
> others just continue being contrarians without making something of it?
> When I go to apply for a job the won't ask me what kind of meal is my
> favorite, but when you were a kid that was a pretty common question. The
> person that interviews me for the job wants to know my intellectual
skills,
> but also my skills to adjust and function in a social net; the place
where
> the work is performed where other people work. Why do most of the people
> love animals or little children? Because they are straight natural and
there
> seems to be someting really clean and undestryed about them, when they
feel
> bad, they show it, when they are happy they show it, there aren't any
> complex social codes you have to know about when you hang out with a dog
or
> your sisters 3-year old child. A lot of people in every generation in a
> welfare society feel when they are young that "oh no, aint gonna do what
my
> parents did and I aint gonna get married and have a dog, house and two
> children". But in most cases they do turn up like that anyway, they have
> become a static pattern, and in the 40-ies they ask themselves "is this
> really what I wanted and did i not fail and gave up upon my ambitions and
> ideas" and some of them will maybesay that they were young and naive and
> going back to have a circular life again, very few will actually do
someting
> Dynamic about their situation, maybe they'll start going to gyms and
those
> sun-machine-tans. But every now and then, one or two people just wake up
and
> really get going with something new. hm, that expression that sometimes
> theres a man whos just right in time, right in place with everything, who
> has an idea and then spread it and everybody think it just sounds great
and
> applies it to there own lifes, what makes some ideas just so time-right
and
> perfect and "this is our common goal". I live in Sweden and everything
just
> seems so splitted up, nothing is united, theres just a lot of subcultures
> thats floating around and lasts a couple of months and then pooof they
are
> gone. theres no generation issue in the same way like when my parents
grew
> up in the 70's. maybe its just welfare tristessa. and maybe im completely
> off the road with this ive written, but i need response so write!
>
> /Hugo
>
>
>
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