Hi Platt,
Re. Science of morals: Last two paragraphs of chapter 12 Lila.
Re. Biological attack: Nope, it's a struggle between two social patterns.
Degenerate Christians V fundamentalist Muslims. Religions are a moral code
conferred by a deity. A biological attack has more to do with sexual
selection, territories, etc.
Re. Absolute truth. Science has an in built eraser, religion does not;
although Catholicism for example has learned that in order to survive it has
to embrace scientific advances or end up looking ridiculous. Very tenacious
those Catholics!
Note: Science can do this because it is an intellectual pattern.
Religion finds it difficult because it is a social pattern.
Re. Metaphysics. I understand the distinction between physics and metaphysics.
The MOQ is a contradiction of sorts and that is why we may be able to base
science upon Quality rather than Truth.
Plato made the mistake of insisting upon a form of truth, and Aristotle
embodies this in his theory of substance.
If science has an in built eraser, then maybe one day we can place Quality at
it's heart?
Let's not insist that static terms such as, 'Science' can never change their
meaning?
If you feel the MOQ has no implications for the environment Platt, then my
heart sinks.
I feel a dreadful despair to think that a fellow explorer of a Metaphysics of
Quality does not feel his Planetary biosphere to be of major value.
All the best to you,
Squonk.
In a message dated 9/19/01 8:36:15 PM GMT Daylight Time, pholden@sc.rr.com
writes:
<< Subj: Re: MD Four theses
Date: 9/19/01 8:36:15 PM GMT Daylight Time
From: pholden@sc.rr.com (Platt Holden)
Sender: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
Reply-to: moq_discuss@moq.org
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Hi Squonk:
> Intellectual patterns do have an obligation to dominate social patterns
> actually.
> Intellectual patterns that reinforce the social patterns' obligation to
> dominate biological patterns are likely to experience more freedom in the
> long run.
Agree. The problem is (as Pirsig points out) that the current SOM
intellectual pattern doesn't recognize the role of society in dominating
biological patterns of crime. That attack on America was a biological
criminal attack, not an intellectual one has some on this site have
suggested.
> Pirsig also states that intellect is defective, and to this extent you are
> not stating anything that is not there to be read either.
> The defect in intellectual patterns is identified as the dominance of an
> absolute truth.
I'm willing to be convinced, but I find nothing in LILA that supports your
assertion. What Pirsig's says in Chap. 22 is: "The defect is that subject-
object science has no provision for morals." And, he explains
elsewhere that science, unlike religion, is to be admired for its
suspicion of absolute truth and its openness to DQ.
> That Quality is the only truth and the MOQ a science if values is stated
by
> Pirsig.
Again, do you have a reference for where Pirsig says "Quality is the only
truth" and that the MOQ is "a science of values?" He does mention in
Chap. 13 that "given a value-centered Metaphysics of Quality, it is
absolutely, scientifically for a doctor to prefer the patient" over germs.
But it's a big logical jump from that remark to conclude that the MOQ is
a "science." In fact, the name "Metaphysics of Quality" denies the truth
of your assertion. Metaphysics is metaphysics, not science. If you don't
see any distinction, I will try to explain.
Whether consumerism is inflicting vast damage on the planet as you
believe is a subject outside the realm of the MOQ, being a matter of
scientific evidence about which there is disagreement. I suspect that
many environmental activists have more of a political agenda than
concern for the flora and fauna. Since Pirsig says nothing about the
environment per se, I hesitate to inject my views about it on this site.
There are more pressing matters where the MOQ can be looked to for
guidance.
Best,
Platt
>>
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