----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizaphanian" <Elizaphanian@btinternet.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: MD Four theses
> Greetings to one and all.
>
<SNIP>
The coalition should have
> gone into Baghdad and set up an interim government in just the same way
that
> happened in Japan or Germany after WW2. That we did not was a failure of
> nerve. The West does need to think seriously about what sort of global
> society it wishes to see, and then, in a war context make it true that
> "after we enforce justice we invariably offer our aid and love."
>
> Why did we lose our nerve? I would say it was due to an emaculation of our
> intellectual culture, and the low quality virus of relativist
postmodernism.
I have heard policy think-tanks being called some terrible things.. ;-)
At the time there were fears that Iran would effectively take control of the
region. The old habit of actively keeping the region destablised dies hard.
Let us remember that the west spent most of the Iran-Iraq war egging both
sides on for just this reason.
You are quite correct though, all that moral rhetoric that we see gush out
at such times as the Gulf War, nearly always reveals it's bargain basement
origins on later anaysis.
> But that's another debate.
>
> BTW I spelt out some of my thinking as 'four theses' because I wanted to
> make it clear, and make each part open to separate comments or
corrections.
It was a very fine and agreeable posting!
> Platt or Rog or anyone else want to have a go at the specifics? I feel
that
> each time you say 'US is wonderful' I want to agree and then say that it
is
> missing the point. It is because the US is such a strong nation in so many
> ways - and the people are so innately generous as individuals - that the
> best hope for a good outcome from the present crisis is for the US to live
> up to its own best ideals, not its worst practices. Acknowledging shades
of
> grey in the US self-image is surely something that can take place in the
> context of MOQ discussion?
Another strong view that I share.
I note that some list member have been discussing the pursuit of happiness,
a founding principle of American society. The problem is that this principle
suffers from the same degeneration as other values. To those who founded it,
the true meaning was the persuit of freedom, equality, brotherhood and
safety. The things that they and their father's had lacked. It was the
absense of these things that they blamed their misery, that is lack of
happiness on.
(A possible meaning is the persuit of a society which perpertuates highest
possible quality)
Today, America is (relatively)safe, free, equal and united. These things are
woven into contempory America, no longer things that need the powerful
aspiration of a fledgling nation. Instead happiness now means
wealth,consumption and decadent indulgence.
Not an argument, but a fact written in the demographics of US body weight. A
nation that leads the world in fatness.
The only time I recall America ever attempting to restrain its basic desires
was the so called 'noble experiment' of the 1920's (Alcohol Prohibition). A
situation that lends itself quite well to anaysis using MOQ.
I am the last person to belittle America. I speak only to add balance to
such discussion regarding America's supposed superiority in all things.
As they say, 'In the Kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king'.
Mk
--M a r k L u c a s
l u c a s - d i g i t a l . c o m
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