To; JOHN
From: ROG
JOHN:
And wrong. Just plain wrong. When the American founding fathers sat down to
construct a model for bringing together a bunch of contrary states into an
new nation, they did so with a large contingent of Iroquois Indian leaders.
Indian values did not seep into popular culture via the movies and novels of
the 1930s, thence to influence the 'new intellectualism'. They were
deliberately chosen by the founding fathers who saw the remarkable success
of the Iroquois Confederacy at first hand, and chose to utilise it in their
model. Much of the success of the resultant democracy can be traced back to
this Indian input.
ROG:
I would REALLY like to know where you get this from. I seem to have
COMPLETELY missed this in my studies of the Constitution. To be honest, my
gut-reaction to this comment is that someone has been seriously hoodwinked by
the cultural-relativist, revisionist historians that have been taking over
campuses worldwide. However, I would love to be corrected, as perhaps I AM
BRAINWASHED by fat dead white revisionist males. If nothing else, perhaps the
ommissions in my sources speak to the biases of the time.
I have a copy of the document in hand (the constitution), and fail to see
where these Iroquois Indians signatures are. Not even an "X". In looking
through the Federalist Papers, searching under "Indians" the only references
I find is that they were considered a threat to some states, and that they
shouldn't be taxed. Also, I cannot find any reference to them attending the
Consitutional Convention.
Now, to be fair, the driving intellectual force behind the constitution was
James Madison, who spent months studying other governments and political
writings. Although he got most of his books from Thomas Jefferson, who sent
them from Europe, I suppose he could have studied Iroqouis Indians somewhere
in there. Any specifics on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
One author Madison surely DID read is Rousseau, who probably was familiar
with Indian social organization. However, it is pretty well agreed that the
Federalists completely rejected Rousseau's ideas. They favored Locke.
JOHN:
And some of the most glaring weaknesses of the same model
can be seen to be derived from the deliberate changes made by an all male
group, which despite the pleas of some advanced women of the time was
determined to exercise its male 'prerogative', and did so, and in so doing
fatally amended key aspects of the successful Indian code. One consequence
is the ongoing environmental degradation of the United States, and indeed
the whole world, which provides it with raw materials.
ROG:
My daughter is in college now (btw, she is half Indian), and part of the rite
of passage in American colleges is to go to these wacky cultural
relativist/feminist classes that spit on one of the only societies (western
liberalism) that allowed women and minorities to become equals. She had all
kinds of propaganda on "PENISES ARE UGLY" "VAGINAS ARE BEAUTIFUL" "GOD
WORHIPPERS ARE EVIL" "GODDESS WORSHIPPERS ARE WONDERFUL" The BS was
amazing. Of course, being prudent, my daughter pretended to buy this crap
and got an A. My fear is that some people (hint: their names rhyme with
Quonk) actually accept it.
JOHN:
If I am wrong about this I will accept correction, but please do me the
courtesy of doing your homework first.
ROG:
I would love references on Indians. As for women, I think a feminine
perspective can only help, so i won't argue that with you that it coulda been
better. The details on what part of the Iroquois code was ammended would be
helpful though.
Rog
Repeat after me everyone....PENISES ARE UGLY! PENISES ARE UGLY! PENISES ARE
UGLY! PENISES ARE UGLY! PENISES ARE UGLY!
Oops, there I go again. At this rate you will never let me join your group.
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