Here here!!
Thank you Rob!
. . . although I'm not prepared to become an "MoQ extremist"
('fundamentalist' to many here) This IS the kind of discussion I've
been seeking.
>>God has changed though, the subject-object definition of it has put
>>it in a box where it doesn't belong. Have you ever wondered what the saying
>>"God is good" really means? The words are so so close that they could have
>>the same root. Could it not be a definition? Quality. If quality is a
>>genuine part of reality one would have to be totally blind not to see it in
>>the levels other than as "truth", it's intellectual interpretation. That's
>why it persists, because it exists.
Much love,
Tanya
> Who truly believes that "God is Dead" though? Only Nietzsche it would
>seem, for God is very much alive in the minds of even the most intellectual
>people of this world. SOM is a pattern that has no good or evil, no morality
>within it, yet morality persists. Nietzsche saw the death of the social
>level God, a God which gave the social level it's authority and morals,
>replaced by the intellectual level, a level with no authority greater than
>the many minds that believe in it. He predicted the death of the social
>level, but although weakened, it still survives. What he failed to see was
>the Metaphysics of Quality, and how the social level fits into the big
>picture. God has changed though, the subject-object definition of it has put
>it in a box where it doesn't belong. Have you ever wondered what the saying
>"God is good" really means? The words are so so close that they could have
>the same root. Could it not be a definition? Quality. If quality is a
>genuine part of reality one would have to be totally blind not to see it in
>the levels other than as "truth", it's intellectual interpretation. That's
>why it persists, because it exists. So Nietzsche was both wrong and right,
>because although the intellectual level doesn't require a God, definer of
>morals, it never really did die when the intellectual level took over.
>And "God has been resurrected by MOQ" anyway.
> Rob
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
>[mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Angus Guschwan
>Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 3:54 PM
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: MD Re: Nietzsche
>
>
>I post my replies below. I will mention that Bush
>mentioned "will to power" in his speech to Congress
>and he used it a way that associated it with the evil
>of the terrorists. His speech writer must have studied
>under those who taught that Nietzsche "directed" the
>Nazi program (Nietzsche believed in the radical
>individual and would never support the homogenization
>goals of Nazism, as one point on a list of many). Bush
>also called the "Vice President Pro Tempore" the "Vice
>President Pro Temporary", which I found amusing even
>in the gravity of the speech he made.
>>
>> When Nietzsche said
>> "God is dead" he predicted the demise of the
>> dominant social level, for when
>> society doesn't have the mind of God any more than a
>> single person does, the
>> intellect rules all.
>William Barrett explains this in his book: "Man killed
>God, [Nietzsche] says, because he could not bear to
>have anyone looking at his ugliest side." The plane
>crashes represent the "ugliest" in all of us. It
>reawakens us to God precisely because the bombings are
>so TRUE to our human nature that even our intellect
>can not repress it any longer. The intellect can not
>RECONCILE the good and bad in us, but it can repress
>the bad. That is why Nietzsche asks us to get "Beyond
>Good and Evil", become better and more evil. I watched
>the PBS series "evolution" last night and they
>dramatized Darwin's life. I was struck by the horror
>expressed by the people who resisted his ideas (this
>being about 1850 or so). We've succumb to the
>explanations of reasons, and one of those conclusions
>is that we are all evil brutish sorts. And that leaves
>one conclusion: kill god and we won't have to deal
>with it. The ultimate coup de grace of reason.
>
>> Do you think that the people now have accepted that
>> God is dead?
>He is dead UNTIL we recognize the "ugliest" in
>ourselves. That is what the plane crashes did for a
>lot of people. Reason can only repress, and control
>objects of reason. But the nature of who we are does
>not change, and the horror of life can beat reason at
>it's own game anytime.
>
>> Has the
>> intellect already transcended this level?
>The intellect can not transcend. It can only foment
>more illusions. Killing God is just another illusion.
>The plane crashes killed the illusion that "God is
>dead" for a lot of people. It's a double action: in
>the horrifying death of thousands of people, life is
>breathed into millions of others. In the Bible, it is
>the equivalent of God's request for Abraham to kill
>his son.
>
>> Is our
>> moral not still concipiated
>> of religional clay?
>There is always a "bond" a "tie" to the unknown within
>all of us. It's just a matter of acknowledgement and
>acceptance. A tragedy like the plane crashes has
>enough force to "reawaken" everyone whose eyes were
>"wide shut." There's only one thing to do, as a
>Kubrick character might say: "F***". In loving someone
>else, we are able to "tune" into the frequency of
>common humanity.
>
>> A very actual topic I think. Are we
>> ''Ubermenschen''?
>For a moment, in this time of tragedy, there are a lot
>of overmen. But the problem is it will fade.
>"Ubermenschen" is hard to translate but it does have a
>dynamism where you have to overcome everyday. It is
>easy to "resurrect god" in your life in the face of
>such tragedy. But what about tomorrow? Everyday you
>have to overcome, otherwise other life forces will
>overcome you. That is the message of "will to power."
>Where there is life, there is will to power. We have
>to resurrect it in all of us. And stay on it day to
>day. Perhaps it is more appropriate to say then that
>humans have a unique ability to have a "will to
>death." We can give up all our powers to others. In
>our horror of the human condition, we do not have the
>courage to live by the code of life. If anything out
>of the tragedy, maybe millions will be brought out of
>their stupor into a will to power. A will to power in
>their own lives. it is not good it is not evil. It is
>life. Become better and more evil.
>
>angus.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>
>>
>>
>> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
>> Mail Archive -
>> http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
>> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>>
>> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the
>> instructions at:
>> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>
>
>MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
>Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
>MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
>To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
>http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
>
>
>MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
>Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
>MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
>To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
>http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:01:31 BST