Hey Erin,
I almost missed this post.....
> RICK
> You pegged me, I think ZMM is the superior work. As you know, I'm
> unconvinced that that 'moral compass' of LILA has any real value for moral
> philosophy ...
> ERIN: Well I will go try and read that because I am not so sure Bart, umm
I
> mean Rick
RICK
To save you some time, here are 2 of my 'favorite' complaints about the MOQ
as a moral compass....
(1) The failure of LILA to give any method by which one may deduce what
pattern belongs to what level makes the application of the MOQ to moral
problems a guessing game at best. The system is easily enslaved to support
almost any position desired by simply describing the patterns in terms that
produce the desired conclusion.
(2) The MOQ gives us virtually no guidance in resolving intralevel conflicts
(ie. social v social). Considering that 'morality' is commonly used to
refer to conflicts in patterns that Pirsig restricts to the social level,
the MOQ isn't terribly helpful in resolving typical moral questions.
Now this...
ERIN
If concept learning is hierarchical and (north-south thing) and reasoning
deals with linear relationships and causality (east-west). For these two to
be together I get a picture of a matrix rather than a continuum.
RICK
Interesting.... Of course, I was using east/west in a totally different
sense... which is why I didn't get your north/south reference... but I now
see what you're getting at.
ERIN
Well gav proposed that there were two moral guides.. rational and intuitive.
RICK
Can you point me to the post you're referring to? I'm not sure what's meant
by this rational/intuitive thing.
ERIN
I am thinking that one moral guide limits itself to linear relationships
and a full moral compass needs the matrix, causal and acausal
relationships....
RICK
Okay... I think I see what you're getting at by combining hierarchical and
linear concepts as a 'matrix'.... One moral guide (rationality) is causal
[east/west] and the other (intuitive) is acausal [north/south].... Is this
what you mean???
ERIN
The problem is I don't really know exactly how a matrix operates.
Everything I come across is broken into four groups and the grid for a
matrix would work really well for this.
RICK
Sorry... I can't imagine that I could tell you anything about a matrix that
you don't already know.
ERIN
Isn't there a difference between a undifferentiated aesthetic continuum and
an undifferentiated aesthetic matrix or am I missing something?
RICK
As far I recall, Northrup used the 2 interchangeably... However, as I said,
it's been almost 10 years since I read that stuff, so I'm not sure if my
memory is accurate, or if I properly understood it at the time... If I can
find that book, I'll get back to you on this.
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful...
rick
ps
ERIN
Jung isn't really part of mainstream psychology but I think it is
psychology's loss.
RICK
To quote the great Tom Robbins: "Psychology today is the state that surgery
was in when it was being practiced by barbers."
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