>===== Original Message From moq_discuss@moq.org =====
>Hey Rick, Patrick, and Sam,
>
RICK:
>On the contrary...The only thing that the eskimo's vocabulary proves (if
>anything) is that it's snowier in Alaska than in India. Saying that the
>eskimo's describe snow in such detail because it is 'culturally important'
>and that Hindu's don't because it is 'unessential to their culture' is a bit
>misleading don't you think? If they both lived in the same place and had
>those big vocabulary differences, then it might indicate something about
>'culture'... but in this case, it only reflects differences in their
>environment....
>...don't you think???
>
ERIN: Okay I know what you are saying about experience but the debate is
whether perception is different due to these experiences. Let me just mention
just a briefly about the expertise literature because I always thought as the
Eskimos as just having a lot of exposure to snow and sort of become experts in
that area and the language reflects that expertise. But the debate is whether
the expert's perceptual experience is different due to their expertise.
(Somebody mentioned "nuances" which is along the same line of thought because
you need a terminonolgy -----which the color research showed. The cultures
that had 1,2,3 color words could see other colors but they weren't as good as
picking up the nuances between the chips that were different shades of red. So
language didn't determine perception, they could distinguish red from blue but
even though they only had words for black and white but the different shades
of red they weren't as good at remembering or distinguishing).
So the expertise literature--this is I have read with things like X-ray
reading and then fictional one about Martian cells (just blobby shapes). So
with the X-ray reading they were shown how a new doctor with all the knowledge
of diagnose can not immediately apply it to reading the x-rays, you need
exposure to the X-rays. So the debate is an experienced doctor "seeing" the
x-rays differently from a new doctor."
Okay I think it has to do with the lines of Sensation--Perception--Cognition.
I think it is very clear that language influences cognition. I don't know of
any research indicating language influence sensation. The perceptual area is
the gray area.
P.S. I need to look it up but there is a part in Lila where Pirsig refers
people not perceptually distinguishing colors was the same as the psychiatrist
not distinguishing a lunatic from a mystic---they both couldn't distinguish
between patterned and unpatterned reality. I think that language helps
patterning reality and thus helps differentiation but I am not sure if it is
limited to cognition or also extends to perception.
>
>
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