Hey Erin,
ERIN:
Okay I know what you are saying about experience but the debate is whether
perception is different due to these experiences.
rick:
Oh... I thought it was about whether or not the linguistic differences
between Hindus and Eskimos were really evidence of this phenomenon. But we
can discuss your issue too....
ERIN:
I think it has to do with the lines of Sensation--Perception--Cognition. I
think it is very clear that language influences cognition. I don't know of
any research indicating language influence sensation. The perceptual area is
the gray area.
rick:
If I may, I'd like to try to translate these lines into Pirsigian language
using the pre/post intellectual split. I think maybe this could shed some
light on why you see the breakdown as you do.
-'Sensation', is pre-intellectual awareness during a Quality event. Thus,
language couldn't possibly influence it since linguistic signals only exist
post-intellectually. This is why there's no research indicating such a
thing, it's logically impossible.
-'Cognition', would be the post-intellectual end product. It's 'Sensation'
after being fully strained through each and every one of the intellectual
filters. 'Cognition' would thus always be affected by language because
language is one of those filters that sensation is ultimately channeled
through before becoming 'cognitive'. This is why it's so clear language
influences cognition, because it's logically necessitated.
-'Perception' is the process of 'sensation' being run through those filters
on its way to becoming 'cognition'. That's why it's gray....
PIRSIG (ZMM p222):
...[I]ntellectuals usually have the greatest trouble seeing this Quality,
precisely because they are so swift and absolute about snapping everything
into intellectual form. The ones who have the easiest time seeing this
Quality are small children, uneducated people and culturally 'deprived'
people. These have the least predisposition toward intellectuality from
cultural sources and have the least formal training to instill it further
into them.
rick:
It's gray because whether or not language influences 'perception' depends on
how far cultural sources of intellectuality (like language) have been
instilled in the particular individual having the experience.
ERIN:
I think that language helps patterning reality and thus helps
differentiation but I am not sure if it is limited to cognition or also
extends to perception.
rick:
I would guess.... always cognition, never sensation... and perception
depending on (at least) the factors listed above. What do you think?
rick
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