Bo,
Thanks for the reply.
> but for instance seeing an ocean as
> "dynamic"
> and the waves as "static" leaves the dynamic part
> and the original
> ocean identical - it really leaves all three
> identical. Don't you agree?
Yes a simplistic Q=DQ+sq is SOMish, overly talky, etc.
It partakes of the error of metaphysics: why talk at
all? BUT Pirsig did decide to talk with a metaphysics
and you have to "commit" to the rules of doing that.
So becoming mystical like you when you are in the
realm of metaphysics is a scholarship error. I've
tried to "fix" this problem by offering a "show" realm
and a "say" realm. Metaphysics is in the "say" realm
whereas mysticism for lack of a better word is in the
"show" realm. I've said before you Bo are right in the
"show" realm and Denis is right in the "say" realm. So
you both can be right with mutually exclusive
thoughts. I take it from paraconsistent logic, or also
"show/say" or also cringe vision-logic. So, if you
keep talking to Denis, you'll never get anywhere
because you are both using different rules. Maybe your
"show" rules are more ZAMMish, but LILA is more
"sayish" and this is a LILA board afterall. So I guess
I'm frustrated because I see the error and I seem
helpless to fix it.
> I just recalled (I tried to find the said message,
> but..) that you said
> that there are three "kinds" of Quality and that
> struck me as wrong.
My big thing is most people here always refers to DQ
as if it is some holy grail. I understand it's primacy
and capitalization, but DQ without sq is nothing. I
just like to remind people to not get overwhelmed with
DQ.
> As said I did not intend to attack your reputation.
> Believe me.
Just me overindulging in my drama. Thanks for a stage
for me to perform my aria.
> Obviously, I need both clarity and respect, and you
> are a example
> to follow. Honestly.
I've followed you and Denis talk and he always seems
to get the "book" right so I never add to it. I am
just as frustrated with him in your discussions. I
"see" where you are going with your thoughts, but I
"think" what Denis says is correct as far as the book.
In terms of clarity, I just suggest anchoring some
thoughts in the words of the book, and then clearly
marking where you are entering an "interpretation"
zone. I think you are dandy on respect, by the way,
it's more a communication problem, and my desire to
indulge in false drama.
> As for Pirsig I always ask for
> understanding his
> position back then.
Aye here's the rub. Now I understand. It's a fair
enough point of view. I think you hate that he
committed to a Metaphysics. And I understand that. But
you have to respect people who read the metaphysics,
because it then becomes scholarly. You may be a guru,
which I sense may be true, but like Plato's cave
analogy, you need to decide if you want to come back
to the cave and educate people. If you do, people need
to hear that Q=DQ+sq is TRUE BUT there at is a more
transcendent way of understanding that equation.
Saying that equation is wrong will confuse a novitiate
to the cause you want to proselytize.
> Not knowing if a living soul
> would understand
> the first thing about his ideas, trying to sound as
> "scholarly" as
> possible and in the process creating a few
> ambiguities.
Most people aren't at higher levels so you have to
indulge them. How do you eat an elephant? One small
piece at a time.
> Yours truly
> Bo
Same here.
> PS I like your many references to books and ideas -
> f.ex to the
> brain layers (limbic etc). My book here is Carl
> Sagan's "The
> Dragons of Eden" and "Bocca's Brain".
I'll have to check those out. I read Brocca's a while
ago but a new look will be nice.
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