Hi Marco and Group.
(again I take the liberty to rename the thread, the "solipsism" part
is so irrelevant)
Sorry for causing you such frustration, but I really thought 3WD
asked for a definition of Intellect when he wrote
> > > If in a commonsense way the moral systems of the MoQ are:
> > > inorganic ='s "laws of nature"
> > > organic ='s "laws of the jungle"
> > > social ='s "the law"
> > > intellectual = [Blank]
> > > Why did Pirsig not tie some name like these to this level? Or did
> > > he somewhere and I miss it? But if he didn't what are some of the
> > > possibilities? The best candidate?
...so why so exasperated? Platt has already started a dispute with
you and has pointed to the salient points so I'll just comment the
ones below:
> MARCO:
> Great. The ONLY mean. And David B also is the only one understanding
> my impossible conclusion. Could be, he will let me know. Up to now,
> he has apparently kept safe this point for himself. That solipsist!
Er ..I meant that DMB is the one to understand the impossibility of
your conclusion.
> Evidences please? About impossible conclusions you could be my master.
> Did Socrates triumph over Athens? Did Galileo triumph over Rome?
First an aside. Note that you see Socrates' story as an "Intellect vs
Society" case. Good, but note that ZAMM presents this as the
coming of SOM. Everybody draw this conclusion - even Pirsig - yet
when I want it formalized as Q-INTELLECT=SOM, nobody agrees
or even reacts .....except 3WD!
Isn't the lesson that Socrates triumphed over Athens and Galileo
over Rome? (the Catholic Church).
> And can you *rationally* understand a culture, *mathematically*
> predict the behavior of a people, *rationally* convince them to
> eventually change their behavior? Good luck. Communists were convinced
> of that. I feel perfectly fine if only my society lets me live in
> peace.
Phew! my turn to get exasperated. Of course intellect's rational
value cannot grasp q-social value, that's the very point of the level
struggle. Social value looks like sheer evil from Intellect's p.o.v. (the
Sep 11 events f.ex.) and is what the Quality Metaphysics is
supposed to remedy with its metaview ... which is why I want it to
be something "out of Intellect, but not at home in Intellect". Our
peculiar mutual misunderstanding is due to two things:
1) Your understanding of modern states as as q-social value
dominated. Italy is a rational-intellect governed country, while
Athens of old was steeped in its old myth ...and Medieval Rome
much later in another myth, but on the verge of entereing a new
age.
2) Your (and many other's) understanding that q-intellect can
contain SOM-rationality and MOQ-rationality simultaneously. It's
the strange mind-intellect where SOM is one idea and the MoQ
another (see. my message for 3WD to-day)
Thanks for reading.
Bo
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