3WDave and All.
Thanks for your patience Dave. When this "SOM of ZAMM =
Intellect of LILA" issue comes up I always remember you having
said something about it, but what? I promise to "post it" to my
forehead.
3WD:
> .....is that while we, for the most part, all agree that the
> emergence and rise to power of what Pirsig calls SOM was a significant
> series of events in the development of the intellectual level .....but
> forwarding the idea that the intellect's BASIC nature and its CURRENT
> nature is wholly determined by these "conception", "birth", and
> "emergence" events sounds like a throw back to good old fashioned
> determism, which even the SOM crowd has abandoned.
I had a small epiphany here when I suddenly understood. You want
SOM to be one of many possible mental constructs ...and that it is
this greater mind realm that is your Q-Intellect! Isn't that so? This is
the end of the MoQ and one may as well fold the tent and return to
SOM (as Platt says) ...of which this view is part and parcel.
The other q-levels are "consistent" (you pointing to the "laws") why
shouldn't we expect that from q-intellect? I think it IS consistent,
but that many (Pirsig even) tend to regard it a realm of ideas - mind
- and that kind of intellect contains EVERYTHING - itself even.
You invoke determinism? The static patterns are determined for the
reason of their value, they can't be dynamic simultaneously, but
this has nothing to do with SOM's determinism.
> This leads you to have to propose mystical structures to contain the
> MoQ.
ZAMM speaks about "giving the ghost of rationality a good
treshing", in LILA this develops into replacing SOM with the MOQ
(another indication that SOM=REASON=INTELLECT) My proposal
of MoQ as a "movement out of intellect" is based on the
impossibility of those two co-existing as intellectual patterns. It can
be compared to biological value never becoming a level of its own,
but forever remaining a "high inorganic patter".
> When we read:
> > This was one of the things that Phædrus had long pondered
and why he
> > finally > settled on metaphysics. If he could find a broad enough
> > foundation, one that would encompass all of the existing structure,
> > he wouldn’t have to rebuild at all.. He would merely slide it
> > underneath." Lila, An Inquiry into Morals, Robert Pirsig 1928-,
> > Bantam Book 1991 1st Hardback Edition.
> And that foundation is an intellectual one. Which is paradoxical in so
> much as its on the top of his heap.
I know that Pirsig regards the MoQ to be an intellectual pattern,
and in Intellect it has its roots - where else - and it may be
regarded as still on intellect's premises, but it won't find peace or
be tolerated there so ...some day! For aeons something that no-
one could tell apart from the surrounding ooze existed, so why not
another millennium for the Q-level to become a separate entity?
Thanks.
Bo
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