Bo ,David
I can almost see what you are getting at, but being new a lot of the
abbreviations tend to trip me up here and there...
OK SOM ( subject-object metaphysics?) and the MOQ ,are derived from the
eastern/ western split instigated by plato... so far so good!
But if this is so, then the origins of the MOQ are older than the origins of
SOM... correct!! So the SOM evolved from a need to break away from the
eastern mystical view of the world.
Let's remember that ALL humankind followed a path, literally, that started
in the plains of africa, then migrating towards the east across what is now
the arabian gulf, into india ( the birthplace of all religion ), by the time
men reached india, we had apparently developed enough socially to evoke
religious thoughts, early mysticism. Onward again and into China, again some
must have stayed as in India and some must have on around behind the
Himalayas and into eurasia, ( modern day soviet union... sorry), then on
into europe and Greece.
OK everything we now have as a culture originated with this journey over
thousands of years, some stayed along the way and developed into discreet
groups or societies, a split about 10000 yrs ago in china, when some went
north and ended up, in North America, others went west and are our common
ancestors... in fact it has been proven through genetics that everyone in
europe came from a group from the east consisting of ten to twenty
individuals.
Now then , if all of our culture is derived at from 10 to 20 people, what
are the chances that this group reflected the whole of human experience , or
more likely as they were travelling together all believed in the same
ideals, embracing some notions and rejecting others, what these were I have
no idea, but I suspect the ones forced to move on are the ones who do not
agree with the society they are in.
What does all this mean??
Basically for me it says our whole culture originates from a group of
outcasts.. and this is not a great place to start, maybe this si why the MOQ
has had such a hard time!!! And it is to eastern mysticism and the roots of
eastern religion, in sanskrit where all the answers lie..
Rod
on 2/26/02 9:13 AM, skutvik@online.no at skutvik@online.no wrote:
> On 23 Feb 2002, at 16:51, David Buchanan wrote:
>
>> A funny thing happened on the way to making a list of quotes for our
>> political compass. The reading and thinking I did while away from here
>> mixed nicely with the re-reading of Lila and it gave me some
>> surprizes. I discovered some fresh answers to Bodvar's SOLAQI, Mr.
>> Beasley's points on the mysticism of Pirsig and, hopefully, some fresh
>> ideas about the 4th & 5th codes too ....etc.
>
> David
> Your "oldest ideas" piece was great. Rod's complaint about the
> discussion is here redeemed: A grand overview that puts the MoQ
> in a perspective that almost goes a step further than Pirsig!!! Phew,
> it left me in the dust ....until I understood that the dust was from
> the same road ahead ;-). Your "cultural derivation" argument
> sounded like a refutation of my SOL-interpretation, but as soon as I
> got my bearings I saw that it affirmed a hunch of mine.
>
> Look: LILA points to an alliance between Intellect and Biology (the
> egg-heads and the criminals) to fight Society. I think it's a rule that
> the upper level seeks support from the one below its parent level
> and that this is what you demonstrate by returning so strongly to
> the social level. The ally of something that wants to undermine
> Intellect is Society.
>
> You are right in so doing, but we need to look at the QM as
> something beyond intellect to free Pirsig from the neo-fascist
> accusations that followed LILA. Seen as a pattern that struggles
> with SOM for control of the intellectual level makes him one - even
> seen from his own system - that the LILA reviewers didn't have an
> inkling is another matter. More about this masterpiece later.
> Bo
>
>
>
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