Erin,
ERIN
Rick they do see the difference.
RICK
Erin how do you know?
ERIN
They don't distinguish the difference.
RICK
This is a conclusion, not an argument... and it begs the question. We're
trying to decide whether Pirsig means 'see' or 'distinguish'. The question
is whether the light SHOWS UP in our field of vision and is THEN ignored
because of cultural definitions of what is real and unreal... or whether
cultural definitions of what is real and unreal filter out the light BEFORE
it shows up in our field of vision.
ERIN
Is that peyote affecting your short-term memory-remember all the Whorfian
talk?
RICK
What peyote?
Either way, Whorf was about LANGUAGE, which is but one single kind of social
pattern. We talking here of the effect of an entire mythos.
ERIN
So then difference between subjective and objective would be majority vote.
RICK
According to Pirsig, what is subject and objective depends on CULTURAL
definitions of what is real and unreal. This is not say 'majority vote'
determines what is subjective and objective. Rather, 'majority vote'
determines what the culture defines as real and unreal.
BO
Explain the S of SOM in terms of the O! Exactly! (and the O in terms of the
S for the idealist camp I would add) is the self-
defeating task that the SOMites never seem to tire of, and regrettably a
trap
that so many would-be MOQites also fall for. See the "Seeing the Light"
thread.
ERIN
Hear, hear!
RICK
I'd expect this sort of 'SOM v MOQ' nonsense from Bo, but from you
Erin??? Glenn and I trying to understand WHAT PIRSIG IS SAYING!!!! Not
crafting any explanation of our own.
Pirsig's Dharmakaya passage is CLEARLY an attempt to establish that the
light has an objective existence. Does this make Pirsig an 'SOMite'? Don't
be silly. 'SOMite' is what a given 'MOQer' calls anyone who either
disagrees with Pirsig or has a different interpretation of Pirsig 's work
(Pirsig provides several 'ready made insults' for this type of person...
SOMer, philosophologist,etc). It's nonsense and use of these epithets is
the mark of low-Quality argumentation.
I'd also be careful before I put my eggs in the Bo Skutvik basket. He
mourns a '...trap that so many would-be MOQites also fall for...". But
that's ridiculous, the analysis being discussed in this thread is
PIRSIG'S!!! And that Bo understands Pirsig's vision of the MOQ is FAR from
established. His SOLAQI idea about the MOQ has been EXPRESSLY rejected by
Pirsig and many of Bo's thoughts are in direct conflict with the text.
rick
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