On 5 Mar 2002 at 6:36, enoonan wrote:
> Hello Bo, Glenn, Rick
> ERIN: So reasoning about dharmakaya light means you are stuck in in
> SOM. How is reasoning about dharmakaya light and "evaluating" your
> proposal of the intellectual level, MOQ, etc different. There is
> nothing wrong with reasoning about something if you know you are only
> reasoning about it. That is you are stuck in SOM only if you think
> reasoning is all there is.. If you think we are stuck in SOM then
> please "evaluate" dharmakaya light for us.
Erin and All.
This was for me, no? As said I have followed the "light" thread at a
distance; some very interesting angles has been investigated and
theories launched and I don't mean to disturb the flow of these because
I agree with your ".....there's nothing wrong with reasoning ...etc" About
being stuck in SOM see the rest.
First: SOM's explanation of all phenomena is based on its
subject/object divide, but if we buy Pirsig's claim this is faulty ....as a
METAPHYSICS ... because it leads to a futile search for the
relationship between the S and the O. I could go on about how many
nuances this search has had, about the materialist claim that everything
is matter and the idealist reversal of this, then the efforts to reconcile
these two, for instance by postulating a psycho-physical parallelism,
that for every mental act there is a physical "shadow".
This last (Spinoza its origin) is correct enough, but it doesn't solve
anything, for in spite of all exorcisms the fact remains that the two
realities seem to have a life of their own and influence each other:
thoughts move bodies and stuff alters our minds ...yet reason demands
that one is the primary one. All this is just too well known and have
resulted in shelf-miles of books and learned papers.
Now, MOQ's "explanation" which is the DQ/SQ (+static levels) First it
must be said that the 'D' must not be seen as the 'S' of SOM or the 'S'
as 'O', rather that the static side contains both. Consequently, the way
the MOQ solves the SOM-induced quandaries - occult phenomena
included -.is much like how Newtonian physics solved the paradoxes of
Greek physics - showing the faulty premises. SOM's faulty premise is
the said claim that the S/O divide is the ultimate one.
The Greek physics paradoxes weren't created because of any
observational discrepancy, no, no, everybody knew that Achilles
sprinted past the turtle, but according to their physics' it was impossible.
Do you see the similarity? We observe all sorts of "paranormal", but it
does not help: according to our META-physics there is an abyss
between the physical and the psychic and just can't drop the search for
the bridge.
The MOQ "contains" the SOM, and Pirsig's way of integrating the S/O
is to call the two lower levels=O and the two upper=S, but ....seek
cover Rick Budd! .... I have found it creating a schism between the
Biological and Social level of the MoQ, something which is resolved by
my SOL interpretation: regarding the intellectual level itself the S/O
divide, because now without the 'M' it merely is "the value of
distinguishing between the two". The 'M' has been taken over by the
Quality Metaphysics which has brought it .....where??????????????
I started out by calling it is a 5th level, but have reduced it to an
intellectual rebel pattern (can't be anything else) which has started on "a
purpose of its own". Wavedave (grudgingly:-) agrees, Platt likes to call
it an "art level", Robert Duinker is on to the same trail, Scott too, Wim?
Even John B. sees some value here. DMB admits that part of the MOQ
transcends intellect.
>From this (slightly) higher Quality vista, what we call "reasoning", is the
world according to the intellectual level where everything is either
subjective self-delusion or - if confirmed by more - must have an
objective cause. As Erin says: ...nothing wrong with reasoning ..... as
long as we know its limitations (its place within the greater Q picture)
Anyone any wiser?
Bo
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