>===== Original Message From moq_discuss@moq.org =====
>RISKY:
>He has already said we DO share according to his terminology by .5% of our
>income. What he hasn't given is that number compared to anyone else. Bill is
>giving a nonsense argument.
ERIN: Risky excluding nonmonetary help I always thought that the US did a lot
but when the percentage is shown it shows we aren't really doing all that
much. It is not about how much we have done but how much we have done in
comparison to what we HAVE.
FICTITIOUS EXAMPLE
Bill Gates gave $1000 to the WTC relief and a person living in poverty in a
third world didn't give anything.
Bill Maher is trying to point out the percentage of what we give/ what we
have.
Betsy want to sing praises for the generous Bill Gates and tell the third
world people stop whining about their starvation. Although Betsy does raises
good points about our other contributions and the corruption of third world
systems it is a little sad that you can agree that .5% is generous.
>Betsy:
>Yes.
>The things we export, just in terms of technology and knowledge, as well as
>goods and services, are extraordinary.
>I'm sick, frankly, of this whining from the third world that somehow we
>should
>have to explain our prosperity and our hard work and our ingenuity.
>We should be more like them.
>Sure, we can live in caves and rub sticks together.
>They should be more like us, Shakara.
>Taiwan doesn't have any natural resources, but it has extraordinary wealth
>because it has a relatively free economic and political system.
>Cuba, however, has extraordinary natural resources and its people are
>starving
>because of corrupt political systems.
>When people change the political system --
>And become more free market, they can be like us.
>RISKY:
>Well said.
ERIN:
I agree
>Ian:
>Now, wait a minute.
>You were talking about people whining because they were hungry and
>disadvantaged.
>
>RISKY:
>No she didn't ...
>
ERIN: Well she kind of did Risky. "I'm sick, frankly, of this whining from
the third world that somehow we should have to explain our prosperity and our
hard work and our ingenuity." I'm sorry but explaining our prosperity and
the means to prosperity (involves interest in other countries) is a great way
to mimimize victims without the cycle of victimology.
>Betsy:
>I'm whining because they say the United States is their problem, when
>their own corrupt political systems are their problem.
ERIN; YES and the question is does US have a responsiblity in helping corrupt
systems improving themselves.
>RISKY:
>He ignores the part of her earlier argument that our contributions to science
>, technology, medicine are our greatest exports and goes back to his half a
>percent. The empirically correct amount of foriegn aid is of course never
>stated.
ERIN: Yes our contribution is beyond the money. But Bill Maher brought the
topic about the money. The argument was about whether the amount of money we
give is enough. Actually you could argue Betsy changes the topic by ignoring
the money topic to US's other contributions. I think it is an important point
but it also may be a way to ignore how little we do financially.
>>
>RISKY:
>She didn't say they should do it overnight. She is saying they should do it,
>and notice IAN has shifted from "help us by giving handouts" to "help us
>change our governments." A transition that needs better development. One
>could argue that this kind of "help" isn't always appreciated.
>
ERIN: I agree.
>Bill:
>How can you call what we give generous? How can you call 0.5% of this
>enormous wealth where people are stuffing food into other food, where we go
>to
>warehouse stores and shop with forklifts, where we have enormous, huge plates
>
>of food that no one could possibly eat --
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