Hi again Rick,
M
> > No path is the only path. There is always the option to change towards
DQ.
> A
> > society defending the status quo killing individuals probably just
doesn't
> > want to change. An idea, actually, doesn't kill society. It just changes
> it.
> R
> You have to give up on this idea that killing individuls always goes
> hand in hand with 'defending the status quo'. Pirsig's very point is that
> sometimes killing individuals goes hand in hand with 'defending society
> itself'.
M
Ok, it can be, but this is nowadays quite irrelevant. No common criminal
threatens the modern society, the global village. Even Al-Qaeda "global
terrorism" can't
really destroy the social structure.
> > > RICK
> > > No. A human personality is a social pattern (remember Marco, in the
MOQ
> > > 'society' is contra-biology, not contra-individual.
> >
> > M
> > A human personality is a social pattern? A human personality is
> four-level.
>
> R
> You exist at four levels but what makes you "MARCO" is social patterns.
M
I find this point quite the opposite of your good "know thyself"..... What
makes me what I am (my personality) is *mainly* my intellectual self. Social
and biological selves are becoming everyday less relevant in this world.
> M
> The idea "I want to die" is an idea. Of course it is not independent of
the
> > lower levels, nevertheless it is an idea.
>
> R
> Of course it is an idea. The point is that the MOQ says it is a
(generally)
> IMMORAL idea.
> > M
> > Again, I can't follow this point that the mother is a social pattern. An
> > individual choice is an idea.
>
> R
> Yes... but it's not always a MORAL choice.
M
Never said these are moral. Intellectual doesn't mean necessarily moral, as
well as immoral doesn't mean automatically social....
> M
> You have to sketch a borderline,
> > or even a cat is a potential source of ideas as in a billion years could
> > evolve into something intelligent.
>
> R
> Sure why not? Intellect would probably say "Don't kill the cats if you
> don't have to...Just in Case."
>
M
Let me split hair. Let's say that a human being is an actual source of
potential ideas .... an embryo is a potential source of ideas. A cat is a
largely hypothetical source of remotely future possible sources of ideas. It
is immoral killing cats, embryos and mums.... but there are clear
differences!
Another point. Quantity is not quality. Nowadays we are too much on this
planet. The problem is not protecting potential sources of ideas. Our
problem is giving them the chance to live in Quality conditions and produce
excellent ideas.
Ciao,
Marco
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