Hi Rog and group,
Maybe is a minor point, maybe not.
> RISKY:
> So exporting our ideals now classifies as IMPERIALISM? Since the start of
> WWII the US has done as much or more than any other country to defend
peoples
> right to self determination. I already admitted that we made some mistakes
> along the way in our war against the spread of totalitarianism (nazi,
> fascist, communist, fundamentalist), but if not for us I suspect Horse and
> his European buddies would currently be little nazis in training.
IMO this argument is a small disaster.
Here is why
1) It seems to me that you tend to forget that half Europe has been
liberated by SSSR, Berlin included. If you then state that SSSR was another
evil empire and the USA won the Cold War, don't forget that even Western
Europe won it.
2) UK has never been a fascist country, so you can't state that Horse would
currently be a little nazi.
3) 60 years have elapsed. America and Europe are not anymore the same.
Neither Horse, nor me nor you were alive then. I could reply that if it
wasn't for Europeans settlers YOU American would still sleep into teepees.
Or that without Caius Julius Caesar French people would be Barbarians. This
is not a silly point. Note that one of the main reasons for the
Israel/Palestine conflict can't be solved is that they are still discussing
the rights of the Zionists over those lands. The best way to solve the
present political problems is to stick to the present. As well as the best
way to understand the past is to look at it with the eyes of that times....
4) During these 60 years, 3 nations in the Western capitalist Europe have
been fascist and allied of the USA: Spain, Portugal, Greece. If now these
are three democratic nations they have not to thank particularly America...
mainly themselves. The only difference between Italy and them is that in
the "European game", it has been useful to liberate Italy and let the
Spaniards suffer Franco.... Just like today it is more useful to let the
Tibetans suffer the Chinese rule than fighting for Tibet.
5) "Some mistakes" sound like the "Collateral damages" of the intelligent
(!) bombs... Euphemisms. More honest would be simply saying that America has
committed "less crimes" than Germany, Italy, Japan or SSSR.
So why a disaster? 'cause IMO it shows how the common opinion many Americans
have about the actions of their nations bears a mix of truth and social
propaganda. Just like the common opinion everywhere in the world... me
included, probably. I suspect that more than we could imagine this is the
source of wars. Probably even of the current one.
Ciao,
Marco
Please don't take this message as an attack to America. Don't forget that
few months ago I stated it has been right to bomb Italy during WWII.
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:01:59 BST